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Author Topic: Veiling  (Read 3562 times)

HarpingHawke

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Veiling
« on: April 19, 2014, 08:29:32 pm »
I know that this issue went around a while back, but I want to know your opinions on veiling as a Pagan.
Do any of you veil? If so, why?
And for those of you that don't, what are your feelings toward it?

(Also, those of you that do, what scarves or other cloths do you use, and in what style? I only ask because I've been getting nudged in this direction and a little bit of guidance from people with experience is well-appreciated).

I look forward to reading about this! :) Have fun.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 08:30:26 pm by HarpingHawke »
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Catherine

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 09:26:00 am »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;145701
I know that this issue went around a while back, but I want to know your opinions on veiling as a Pagan.
Do any of you veil? If so, why?
And for those of you that don't, what are your feelings toward it?

(Also, those of you that do, what scarves or other cloths do you use, and in what style? I only ask because I've been getting nudged in this direction and a little bit of guidance from people with experience is well-appreciated).

I look forward to reading about this! :) Have fun.

 
I veil for Juno because She told me to. Not every day, or even for the whole day, and never out of the house. It's something I do for more formal occasions. The first of every month, certain holidays, or when I'm requesting Her help with something. I was resistant to it at first, but after some negotiation we came to an agreement.

As far as what I use, it varies depending on what I'm doing for Her. I have a collection of scarves. I started buying them when I had my first thyroid surgery to cover first the bandages, then the healing scars. I have one that is dedicated to Her and I don't wear it any other time. But sometimes, I'll choose something from the collection that suites the ritual, season or whatever.

It's a practice that's still evolving as my relationship with Her changes and grows.
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Redfaery

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 11:10:31 am »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;145701
I know that this issue went around a while back, but I want to know your opinions on veiling as a Pagan.
Do any of you veil? If so, why?
And for those of you that don't, what are your feelings toward it?

(Also, those of you that do, what scarves or other cloths do you use, and in what style? I only ask because I've been getting nudged in this direction and a little bit of guidance from people with experience is well-appreciated).

I look forward to reading about this! :) Have fun.

I was raised Catholic, so I come from a religion where veiling is still a part of practice, though obviously not nearly so prominent since the Vatican II reforms. You can still find uber-conservatives (who are open about how they think Vatican II just ruined the whole mood) who say that women should wear veils in church. I also believe that in more formal services in some countries, women are indeed expected to veil their heads. My mom bought a lace shawl for this reason, when she was planning on taking Mass in Rome. I think being in a centuries-old cathedral kind of demands a higher level of formality in one's personal presentation, as opposed to one's home church that was, say, built in the seventies and has no particular historical or cultural importance.

From personal experience, I don't veil, though I would not be averse to it if I worked with a deity who asked. Historically, it's a pretty common belief in Europe and Asia that bareheadedness is inappropriate. In cultures as diverse as Medieval England and Imperial China, one did not simply go out in public with one's hair uncovered. There have certainly been exceptions, and it's not as simple as saying "bare heads were always bad," but from what I've learned through my love of history, some sort of means of confining or covering the hair is almost universal in formal, public situations - and historically, religious rituals have been formal and at least somewhat public.

This thread has actually gotten me thinking about looking into some special method of pulling back my hair from my face during my devotions, since I just realized that even from a purely practical point of view, having my hair not falling completely over my face when I'm trying to focus on my prayers would be a good thing. :eek:
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 11:11:54 am by Redfaery »
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Allaya

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2014, 07:22:48 am »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;145701
I know that this issue went around a while back, but I want to know your opinions on veiling as a Pagan.
Do any of you veil? If so, why?
And for those of you that don't, what are your feelings toward it?

(Also, those of you that do, what scarves or other cloths do you use, and in what style? I only ask because I've been getting nudged in this direction and a little bit of guidance from people with experience is well-appreciated).

I look forward to reading about this! :) Have fun.

 
Dammit, I have an acute lack of spoons plus a looming due date for a largish assignment. This is a topic that I've wanted to discuss for some time. I have thoughts on it, but no clue as to have to resolve them all and potentially apply them to myself.

This post is totally not a bookmark for later when I have the time and energy to write. :whis:
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Sobekemiti

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2014, 07:52:36 am »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;145701
I know that this issue went around a while back, but I want to know your opinions on veiling as a Pagan.
Do any of you veil? If so, why?
And for those of you that don't, what are your feelings toward it?

(Also, those of you that do, what scarves or other cloths do you use, and in what style? I only ask because I've been getting nudged in this direction and a little bit of guidance from people with experience is well-appreciated).

I look forward to reading about this! :) Have fun.

 
Right now, all the veiling I do is during devotions, where I cover my head with a scarf. I just drape it, though, over my head. It's easier that way.

It's something I've thought about doing on a more full-time basis, for various reasons, but I've never gone through with it because I can't find a style I like that isn't crossing culturally appropriative lines and isn't too obviously feminine. Figuring out gender-neutral head-coverings is hard. :/
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Sophia C

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2014, 04:52:52 pm »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;145701
I know that this issue went around a while back, but I want to know your opinions on veiling as a Pagan.
Do any of you veil? If so, why?
And for those of you that don't, what are your feelings toward it?

(Also, those of you that do, what scarves or other cloths do you use, and in what style? I only ask because I've been getting nudged in this direction and a little bit of guidance from people with experience is well-appreciated).

I cover my head for certain periods,  e.g. when I'm doing a more intense period of devotions to my goddess (both in devotions and in daily life during that period). Basically, if she asks me to, I do - I don't over-think the reasons, really. It has the effect of reminding me of my liminal status at these times (which is very relevant to the deity in question), as well as keeping me mindful that I'm in a sort of 'set apart' space at these times.

I haven't settled on a style of head covering. I've worn bandana-style triangular scarves, drapey scarves, and folded scarves sort of like wide headbands. I need to find some that look nice and are in a style I like, and that I can actually keep in my head (my pencil-straight hair doesn't hold on to anything, not styles, not scarves).
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yewberry

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 08:15:46 am »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;145701
And for those of you that don't, what are your feelings toward it?


As I've never met a deity, and I've never felt compelled for any other reason.

I'm also curious about the fact that veiling is almost entirely done by women.  Because of this, my knee-jerk is always "Why?  Why must only women cover their faces before their god(s)?"

Brina
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Catherine

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2014, 08:44:15 am »
Quote from: yewberry;145932
As I've never met a deity, and I've never felt compelled for any other reason.

I'm also curious about the fact that veiling is almost entirely done by women.  Because of this, my knee-jerk is always "Why?  Why must only women cover their faces before their god(s)?"

Brina

 
Just to be clear, I don't cover my face I cover my hair. The sides of the scarf falling down in such a way that my peripheral vision is blocked, but not my whole face. So, maybe veiling isn't the most appropriate word. Head covering might be better.

I know it's not the same as covering their faces, but aren't there Jewish and Muslim traditions that require men to cover their heads?

I'm not saying you're wrong to have that reaction. At first, I did too. But after I started doing it, I started to understand why She wanted it done.
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Sophia C

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2014, 08:50:59 am »
Quote from: Catherine;145934
Just to be clear, I don't cover my face I cover my hair. The sides of the scarf falling down in such a way that my peripheral vision is blocked, but not my whole face. So, maybe veiling isn't the most appropriate word. Head covering might be better.

Yes, same here. Head, not face.

Quote
I know it's not the same as covering their faces, but aren't there Jewish and Muslim traditions that require men to cover their heads?

Orthodox Jewish men cover their heads. Many Muslim men cover their heads. Sikh men do. It's really not just women, across lots of religious traditions.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 08:51:23 am by Naomi J »
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Siren

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2014, 09:06:37 am »
Quote from: Redfaery;145742
This thread has actually gotten me thinking about looking into some special method of pulling back my hair from my face during my devotions, since I just realized that even from a purely practical point of view, having my hair not falling completely over my face when I'm trying to focus on my prayers would be a good thing. :eek:

 
Yeah, I don't veil but I do tend to pull my hair back--I have a LOT of it and mostly am just trying not to light it on fire. ;)
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Amphibian

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2014, 01:33:38 pm »
Quote from: Naomi J;145936
Orthodox Jewish men cover their heads. Many Muslim men cover their heads. Sikh men do. It's really not just women, across lots of religious traditions.

Huh.  That's interesting; makes me wonder where the 'it's only women' meme came from/gained momentum.

As for my personal habits, well. I tend not to wear any sort of hat/head cover/etc except in a couple of very specific weather-mandated circumstances.  For 'getting it out of the way' purposes, though, my hair is frequently pulled back in a ponytail; not my preferred way to wear it, but it reduces fire hazard and arguments with the wind.
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Sophia C

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2014, 01:36:47 pm »
Quote from: Amphibian;145951
Huh.  That's interesting; makes me wonder where the 'it's only women' meme came from/gained momentum.


My suspicion is that it's because Christianity is the one prominent religion where women cover their head and men don't. And most people don't know very much about religions other than Christianity, in the general Western population.
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Kyndyl

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2014, 02:43:01 pm »
Quote from: yewberry;145932
As I've never met a deity, and I've never felt compelled for any other reason.

I'm also curious about the fact that veiling is almost entirely done by women.  Because of this, my knee-jerk is always "Why?  Why must only women cover their faces before their god(s)?"

Brina

 
not only women, I've wanted to and done so on several occasions, but yes it is primarily women. The most difficult thing for me is finding a way to cover my head daily that feels right, and doesn't feel like cultural appropriation. Are there any other men that cover their heads?
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yewberry

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 02:23:51 pm »
Quote from: Naomi J;145936
Yes, same here. Head, not face.


Sorry.  I meant to say "head coverings" rather than "face".

Quote
Orthodox Jewish men cover their heads. Many Muslim men cover their heads. Sikh men do. It's really not just women, across lots of religious traditions.


Pagan men, though?  Any?  In Big Umbrella paganism, I've only ever met or heard of women covering their heads, faces, or hair.  I know that some classical pagan religions required some form of head coverings, but that only women(to the best of my knowledge) were compelled to do so.

My understanding of this is very, very far from complete, though.

Brina
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beith

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Re: Veiling
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2014, 03:46:35 pm »
Quote from: Naomi J;145952
My suspicion is that it's because Christianity is the one prominent religion where women cover their head and men don't. And most people don't know very much about religions other than Christianity, in the general Western population.

 
I agree, but would add Islam to that.  Not that men don't cover their heads (as has been noted above), but in terms of veiling one's face/body.  In the recent political climate of my country there is a lot of general outrage against religious rules/national laws forcing women to cover their hair, face, and/or entire bodies whenever outside their home that is directed at the hijab, niqab, and burqa in particular and oppression of women.

Personally I don't cover my hair or face.  I'd consider doing so in the future if I felt so compelled, but at the moment it isn't on my radar.  My feelings are that if it feels right for you, have at it.  If it's an important symbol or act to you for your faith, I think that's wonderful.  If one only wears such a covering because otherwise they would be ostracized by their family/community, or worse, I have strong negative feelings towards that.
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