The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum

I've been thinking recently about the idea of a curse and how a some people seem to think it is wrong or that it is dangerous because it could blow back at you, essentially it is like a loaded gun only a lot harder to aim. But is there ever a situation where using one would be justified? For example I set up some sort of big major ritual to pop someone's aorta, let's say a Nero, Hitler, Stalin, or any of the Kims; would that justified? Or would I be headed toward the Darkside? Any thoughts opinions?

disclaimer: This discussion is strictly a theoretical ethics debate

 
Common sense, and many people out there would say no. If you do that you are stooping to their level and you should be the bigger person. Me, I would agree, really. Who are we to judge what someone deserves or what some does not deserve? This is really all opinion and perspective. One person could say that a man who works really hard gets a promotion, but another would say he has not been working with the company long enough to deserve it.

I have cursed someone before, when I was "young and stupid" as they say. The person had told many lies, and got me and my beloved into much trouble and had the whole family angry with us (except for his very forgiving mom). Not to long ago, this person got cancer in their throat. They did not die, and was able to have it removed....but I DID NOT feel good about it like I thought I would, weather justice was served or not.

Cursing someone; even if there was no backlash, is not worth the feeling you get when your curse works. I have not done one curse since and I never will do another again. I learned my lesson on that. There are better ways to handle things.

disclaimer: This discussion is strictly a theoretical ethics debate

 

I have no moral problems with cursing. If I'm prepared to do my best to hit back with non magical means then I see no problem with using magical means.

There will of course be a price to pay but there tends to be if you use mundane methods as well. The question I ask is whether I am prepared to pay that price which can be heavy. Sometimes yes; sometimes no.

(For full disclosure, I may be considered part of the "Darkside" by some people. Dun dun dun. I work in part with fallen angels and demons, and am on a lefthand path.)

 
Darkside? At what point does a person enter the darkside?

It's all gray to me.  There is the gray that is white, and goes to the gray that is black (or the other way around).  

Most things some is good for you, too much is deadly, so is too little.  


Fallen angels? Did not most bring some enlightement to mankind?

 and demons?  Unsure what they are.

Rember one persons trash is another persons treasure.

I've been thinking recently about the idea of a curse and how a some people seem to think it is wrong or that it is dangerous because it could blow back at you, essentially it is like a loaded gun only a lot harder to aim. But is there ever a situation where using one would be justified?

Yes.

For example I set up some sort of big major ritual to pop someone's aorta, let's say a Nero, Hitler, Stalin, or any of the Kims; would that justified? Or would I be headed toward the Darkside? Any thoughts opinions?

disclaimer: This discussion is strictly a theoretical ethics debate

I am of the school of thought that your reasons for cursing someone (or not) need to be justifiable to you.  It shouldn't matter what I think - ethics are both personal and situational, and my not agreeing with you doesn't mean you're not justified.

If you're looking for my own stance on curses and whether I would do it, see my first answer.

The original poster was the one who brought up the term, questioning if cursing someone would lead them to the "Darkside". The reason I used quotes, was in reference to what they said. Letting them know that others have accused me of being "dark" because of who I deal with and the kind of spiritual work I do, and so they may want to factor that into how they took my opinion.

Quote

I did not mean to throw stones, my appoliges if that is what you felt.  

So I think you mistook me. I see the world in grays as well. And I did not accuse anything of being trash or treasure.

 
That is something I added, meaning what some see no value in, others see high value in.

I've been thinking recently about the idea of a curse and how a some people seem to think it is wrong or that it is dangerous because it could blow back at you, essentially it is like a loaded gun only a lot harder to aim. But is there ever a situation where using one would be justified? For example I set up some sort of big major ritual to pop someone's aorta, let's say a Nero, Hitler, Stalin, or any of the Kims; would that justified? Or would I be headed toward the Darkside? Any thoughts opinions?

disclaimer: This discussion is strictly a theoretical ethics debate

 
The real question is, "Is harming another person ever justified?"  A curse is just a means of doing it--a tool.  And yes, many legal systems give harsher penalties to people who do violence with a weapon rather than unarmed, and a curse is a weapon, but violence is violence.  Actions have consequences; magic is an action.  If you believe violence is never justified, probably your ethics should indicate that a curse is never justified, unless you believe curses don't actually work.  If you believe violence is sometimes justified, well, curses are then sometimes justified too.  Then it's a question of working out, ethically and practically, when they're justified.

There's no "Dark Side" to slip into, where you rack up enough Darkness Points and flip over from Good Person to Evil Person.  There's just choices, and actions, and consequences.  There is no undoing an action--there is just doing more actions in response to the consequences, with no backwards or canceling out.  Violence often has unpleasant consequences, and the question is more "is it worth it" than "does it turn me into a Bad Person."  (It does change you, but only into a you who has done a thing, instead of a you who hasn't done that thing.)  I would say, for practical reasons alone, it's usually not worth it.  There are times, too, where not doing it is worse than doing it, in its consequences.

There's not really a clean answer to this sort of thing.  There's just answers you can live with, and, I hope, an ethical commitment to doing right by the people around you.

I've been thinking recently about the idea of a curse and how a some people seem to think it is wrong or that it is dangerous because it could blow back at you, essentially it is like a loaded gun only a lot harder to aim. But is there ever a situation where using one would be justified? For example I set up some sort of big major ritual to pop someone's aorta, let's say a Nero, Hitler, Stalin, or any of the Kims; would that justified? Or would I be headed toward the Darkside? Any thoughts opinions?

disclaimer: This discussion is strictly a theoretical ethics debate

 
Personally, I'm skeptical about the efficacy of curses. However, from an ethical standpoint: would you stab this person to their face? Would you snipe them from 100 yards away? Would you poison their food? Would you willingly accept the physical consequences of harming this person? If not, then using magic to harm them just seems like cowardice.

Depends on the curse and what is intended, but I would not, I would bless them instead.  I have heard it said that resentment is you taking poison, expecting someone else to die.

 
Also, this entirely. I don't see the point of punishing people when you can try to reform them. It's the major problem I have with the US prison system. Reforming someone makes the world a better place in the long term. Punishing or killing someone just makes the world a less shitty place for a little while. Sometimes the latter might be absolutely necessary, but if someone absolutely needs to be removed, I would probably advocate taking physical action rather than relying on magical thinking.