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Author Topic: Questions about Asatru  (Read 1986 times)

Vaulkhar

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Questions about Asatru
« on: March 17, 2014, 01:27:21 am »
Hey all!

I'm a fresh member of the forums, here trying to find some answers.

A little backstory to hopefully explain my situation: I grew up in a Protestant Christian family and while I remain attracted to the idea of a God full of love, I am  no longer certain that the Judeo-Christian God is like that. I just am not sure.

 I am a graduate student of history. While I am not working with Anglo-Saxon or Norse history in particular I have nonetheless been drawn to it for quite some time (admittedly, the Bernard Cornwell books would probably do that to anybody). Nonetheless, in my research for my thesis I came across the idea of reconstructed religions of the past - notably Asatru. I started reading about it and something about it just drew me to it. After stumbling across "Anglo-Saxon Paganism for Beginners" by Swain Wodening I immediately purchased it on my Kindle (as buying a hard copy would surely create drama at home) and found it all very intriguing. I am interested in perhaps participating in a folk religion that is tied to me specifically, but is nonetheless inclusive and does not attempt to consign other gods or faiths to dust as does the Judeo-Christian faiths. Furthermore, the idea of being devoted to a particular God or Goddess is attractive to me. I am interested in hearing anybody's experiences with Asatru.

1) I have been reading a fair bit of these forums. It seems to me that a whole lot of people have had what seems to be direct conversations (" ") with Gods and Goddesses from various pantheons. I'm wondering how you start that type of conversation, and what exactly is it like?

2) In the same vein, after reading much about Odin in both the above-mentioned book and Paxson's "Essential Asatru" (as well as posts on this site) it strikes me that Odin seems to be a very scary figure - or one who you should not approach lightly. This is disappointing as I was originally drawn to him because he would seem to be an excellent patron for scholars and those who deeply value learning. I was wondering if anyone could expound further on Odin.

3) This is slightly embarrassing considering I do not even consider myself necessarily an Asatruar  yet (just kind of probing and interested) but last night I prayed to Odin. It was short and it was respectful and it lacked an altar or a sacrifice but I did ask him to show himself to me somehow "tonight or soon." Tangentially, how does everyone feel about silent or "quiet" prayer? My living situation pretty much demands that if I were to become an Asatruar having an altar would be impossible.

Overall, I am wondering if Asatru or some variation of it is right for me. I'm certainly open to other ideas if anybody has them and am eager to learn about other Pagan faiths. Thanks for any feedback!

Aelfcynn

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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2014, 04:04:45 am »
Quote from: Vaulkhar;142669
Hey all!

I'm a fresh member of the forums, here trying to find some answers.

(snip)


I can't say much about point 1, but I can offer up personal views on 2 & 3.

I am looking to get in closer contact with Woden, whose name I have known and whose presence I have felt for two years, but as you might guess I've been taking slow and measured steps, primarily because of the nature of the connection I feel may be possible between us. Odin (who you may consider to be the same) has many recorded names that reflect his varied nature, and not all of them translate to one who should be feared. Nevertheless, I too feel that he should be approached with respect but he is after all, 'one of the good guys'. Read his stories, particularly about the prices he has paid for wisdom, and get to know the importance of a promise.

As for silent prayer, my prayers (in opposition to many of my offerings) are very quiet and subdued - I don't shout their praise but whisper it or merely think it. Usually it is part of drinking a good beer or cider, in my horn usually but not necessarily. I'm beginning to set up altars (that may become shrines) but they are also pretty small and simple. There is an emphasis on communal (and loud and proud) acts of worship but it's not always possible, and sometimes it's not desirable.

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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2014, 11:13:33 am »
Quote from: Vaulkhar;142669
1) I have been reading a fair bit of these forums. It seems to me that a whole lot of people have had what seems to be direct conversations (" ") with Gods and Goddesses from various pantheons. I'm wondering how you start that type of conversation, and what exactly is it like?


Not something I have ever been able to do but I have gotten insight after prayer or mediation to the gods. I good practice of sitting quietly and listening would be a good start.

Quote from: Vaulkhar;142669
2) In the same vein, after reading much about Odin in both the above-mentioned book and Paxson's "Essential Asatru" (as well as posts on this site) it strikes me that Odin seems to be a very scary figure - or one who you should not approach lightly. This is disappointing as I was originally drawn to him because he would seem to be an excellent patron for scholars and those who deeply value learning. I was wondering if anyone could expound further on Odin.


Any god should be approached with respect. In my experience some of what makes him scary is not taking excuses and making us face ourselves. He certainly values wisdom. If you are feeling called it can't hurt to "make contact". He is a main player in Asatru.

Quote from: Vaulkhar;142669
3) This is slightly embarrassing considering I do not even consider myself necessarily an Asatruar  yet (just kind of probing and interested) but last night I prayed to Odin. It was short and it was respectful and it lacked an altar or a sacrifice but I did ask him to show himself to me somehow "tonight or soon." Tangentially, how does everyone feel about silent or "quiet" prayer? My living situation pretty much demands that if I were to become an Asatruar having an altar would be impossible.


Prayer can be a dirty word to some in the Heathen community but I have no issue with it. You can do an altar without doing one. Horse and wolves are Odin's animals as are ravens. Pictures of them with a small space for a glass of water for an offering would work. I think the gods are pretty respectful of restrictions we may have in our practice. Other Asa are: Frigg, Ullr, Tyr, Thor, Eir, Indunna and others. Just keep praying and reading. You'll eventually get some kind of response.

makaros

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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2014, 03:49:48 pm »
Quote from: Vaulkhar;142669
I am a graduate student of history. While I am not working with Anglo-Saxon or Norse history in particular I have nonetheless been drawn to it for quite some time (admittedly, the Bernard Cornwell books would probably do that to anybody). Nonetheless, in my research for my thesis I came across the idea of reconstructed religions of the past - notably Asatru. I started reading about it and something about it just drew me to it. After stumbling across "Anglo-Saxon Paganism for Beginners" by Swain Wodening I immediately purchased it on my Kindle (as buying a hard copy would surely create drama at home) and found it all very intriguing.


Neat!  Swain Wodening's book is where I started really getting interested in Asatru and Norse/Anglo-Saxon paganism and polytheism.  I recommend Travels Through Middle Earth:  The Path of a Saxon Pagan by Alaric Albertsson if you're interested in learning more about Anglo-Saxon heathenry (and there is a Kindle edition).

Quote
I am interested in perhaps participating in a folk religion that is tied to me specifically, but is nonetheless inclusive and does not attempt to consign other gods or faiths to dust as does the Judeo-Christian faiths. Furthermore, the idea of being devoted to a particular God or Goddess is attractive to me. I am interested in hearing anybody's experiences with Asatru.


I think Asatru is definitely a good place to look, though personally I found that I'm more interested in a semi-reconstructionist path rather than full-blown reconstructionism.  Regardless, I haven't heard of a modern polytheistic or pagan religion that denies the existence or validity of other gods outside of a particular culture, so you're in good company. :)

Quote
3) This is slightly embarrassing considering I do not even consider myself necessarily an Asatruar  yet (just kind of probing and interested) but last night I prayed to Odin. It was short and it was respectful and it lacked an altar or a sacrifice but I did ask him to show himself to me somehow "tonight or soon." Tangentially, how does everyone feel about silent or "quiet" prayer? My living situation pretty much demands that if I were to become an Asatruar having an altar would be impossible.


I can't really answer your other questions well since I'm actually still kind of trying to figure out everything myself, but from what I have researched and learned, this is reasonable.  There isn't always an opportunity to do rituals and offerings with an altar, especially if you're living with others which with you aren't comfortable sharing your religious/spiritual exploration.  I like Ula's suggestion for low-key altars as well.

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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2014, 05:46:11 pm »
Quote from: Vaulkhar;142669
This is slightly embarrassing considering I do not even consider myself necessarily an Asatruar  yet (just kind of probing and interested) but last night I prayed to Odin. It was short and it was respectful and it lacked an altar or a sacrifice but I did ask him to show himself to me somehow "tonight or soon." Tangentially, how does everyone feel about silent or "quiet" prayer? My living situation pretty much demands that if I were to become an Asatruar having an altar would be impossible.

I don't think the gods want you to get into a row with your neighbours or family; the family is particularly important for the heathen. All you need for a blot is a bottle of mead (or a can of beer). Go into a quiet park, say your prayer, and make the libation. As with any gift, "it's the thought that counts".
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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2014, 06:17:41 pm »
First off, welcome!

Quote from: Vaulkhar;142669
1) I have been reading a fair bit of these forums. It seems to me that a whole lot of people have had what seems to be direct conversations (" ") with Gods and Goddesses from various pantheons. I'm wondering how you start that type of conversation, and what exactly is it like?

I wouldn't say I have. At least not in the way people around here like to talk about it. I'm not "god bothered," as you might call it. ;) So, you know, you could... not have that type of conversation.

If you're interested in that type of relationship, by all means! Just offering an alternative... you don't have to have that type of experience. Particularly in Asatru, this type of relationship isn't quite the norm, I'd say.

Quote
2) In the same vein, after reading much about Odin in both the above-mentioned book and Paxson's "Essential Asatru" (as well as posts on this site) it strikes me that Odin seems to be a very scary figure - or one who you should not approach lightly. This is disappointing as I was originally drawn to him because he would seem to be an excellent patron for scholars and those who deeply value learning. I was wondering if anyone could expound further on Odin.

I encourage you to the look in the Asatru and Heathenry SIG if you haven't already. There will likely be more reconstructionist (i.e. historical) information there than you'll find in the general boards like you've posted here. Definitely look at the recommended sources thread there... you could do worse than Paxson, but she's not overly historical.

And since it seems your interested in the academic side of things, you might also visit the Asatru Lore forums, although do much more reading than posting. (We're more "beginner friendly" here at TC, I'd say. :) )

As for Odin, I myself am an English teacher and feel drawn to him as well. He certainly deserves to be respected, but "scary" is a bit of a strong word. Don't be discouraged if that's where you feel a pull.

Quote
3) This is slightly embarrassing considering I do not even consider myself necessarily an Asatruar  yet (just kind of probing and interested) but last night I prayed to Odin. It was short and it was respectful and it lacked an altar or a sacrifice but I did ask him to show himself to me somehow "tonight or soon." Tangentially, how does everyone feel about silent or "quiet" prayer? My living situation pretty much demands that if I were to become an Asatruar having an altar would be impossible.

One, don't be embarrassed. Been there, done that. Easier said than done, but there you have it. Building off of the above, if you think Odin is scary why would you ask anything of him? You might not like what he has to show you. No need to be overly timid, but just trying to give some perspective. What does he owe to you? In a word: nothing. Before you start asking stuff from gods, maybe start giving offerings or praying just as a "Hey, I'm here, if you want to take notice of me."

As for altars, they're not necessary. People have them, but there's no dogma of "Thou art not Asatru without an altar" going on. :) Can you have a candle? Can you leave a small glass or dish of drink/food offering out overnight? Symbolic pictures have also been mentioned, which might be a good idea too.
"Silent and thoughtful a prince\'s son should be / and bold in fighting; / cheerful and merry every man should be / until he waits for death." ~ Havamal, stanza 15

Vaulkhar

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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2014, 04:48:29 pm »
Quote from: makaroð;142732
Neat!  Swain Wodening's book is where I started really getting interested in Asatru and Norse/Anglo-Saxon paganism and polytheism.  I recommend Travels Through Middle Earth:  The Path of a Saxon Pagan by Alaric Albertsson if you're interested in learning more about Anglo-Saxon heathenry (and there is a Kindle edition).


Thanks for the advice, I'm taking a look at it now! My other question related to Anglo-Saxon heathenry/Asatru is just how closely do these two paths converge? To me it seems that there is little difference besides the spelling of the names of the gods and certain rituals. Both seem to practice ancestor worship and believe in the same concept of fate or wyrd. So is there any difference? Indeed, it seems as if the two systems are virtually interchangeable.

Vaulkhar

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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2014, 05:07:21 pm »
Quote from: Hyacinth Belle;142750


One, don't be embarrassed. Been there, done that. Easier said than done, but there you have it. Building off of the above, if you think Odin is scary why would you ask anything of him? You might not like what he has to show you. No need to be overly timid, but just trying to give some perspective. What does he owe to you? In a word: nothing. Before you start asking stuff from gods, maybe start giving offerings or praying just as a "Hey, I'm here, if you want to take notice of me."

As for altars, they're not necessary. People have them, but there's no dogma of "Thou art not Asatru without an altar" going on. :) Can you have a candle? Can you leave a small glass or dish of drink/food offering out overnight? Symbolic pictures have also been mentioned, which might be a good idea too.


Thank you everyone for the replies, I'm still doing a lot of thinking on all of this.

Just to clarify, I do not particularly find Odin scary. However I have read in the above mentioned Anglo-Saxon heathenry beginners book, as well as Paxson's Asatru Essentials and I have gotten the feeling that Odin is perhaps a difficult god to work with. Or at least not the "got your back, bro" ally that I had earlier envisioned (my Asatru lore knowledge is fairly limited). Furthermore, the feedback from members on TC's God's and Goddesses forum about what gods members prefer not to work with seemed to generally say that Odin is a god who can be manipulative and scary. So I have not *personally* felt any fear of Odin until I started reading about him from people who have worked with him.

Nonetheless, I have found myself drawn to Odin and Thor.  But I am receptive to others and am still learning.

As for sacrifices, I was wondering how to go about them and this sounds weird but I am not sure about the mechanics of it all. If I were to, say, have some mead or a beer and just pour it out on the ground and invoke Odin or Thor's name would that do them sufficient honor? Is there more ritual to it than that? What about food? Do I just let it go bad? I know Asatru and Paganism in general are not strictly uniform and a pagan or Asatruar might approach this and other questions in different ways. So I guess I'm wondering how any of you go about doing it. I still have a very protestant(I  guess) mindset in which spirituality is largely "internal" - silent prayers, quiet meditation and contemplation, etc.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 05:09:47 pm by Vaulkhar »

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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2014, 08:31:50 pm »
Quote from: Vaulkhar;143008
I have gotten the feeling that Odin is perhaps a difficult god to work with. Or at least not the "got your back, bro" ally that I had earlier envisioned (my Asatru lore knowledge is fairly limited). So I have not *personally* felt any fear of Odin until I started reading about him from people who have worked with him.
Same / agreed!

Quote
As for sacrifices, I was wondering how to go about them and this sounds weird but I am not sure about the mechanics of it all. If I were to, say, have some mead or a beer and just pour it out on the ground and invoke Odin or Thor's name would that do them sufficient honor? Is there more ritual to it than that? What about food? Do I just let it go bad? I know Asatru and Paganism in general are not strictly uniform and a pagan or Asatruar might approach this and other questions in different ways. So I guess I'm wondering how any of you go about doing it. I still have a very protestant(I  guess) mindset in which spirituality is largely "internal" - silent prayers, quiet meditation and contemplation, etc.
*shrug* I guess it depends on how historical you want to be. Look up blot in the A&H SIG or online. This page from Raven Kindred might also be useful. http://www.ravenkindred.com/blot.htm (I can't enter a hyperlink for some reason???...)

As for what I do, I usually pour it down the sink or put food in the trash. That's not the way I'd prefer to do it, and when I lived at my parents where it was easier to dispose outside that's what I did. But now I'm in a second story apartment in town, so it's not ideal. I usually leave offerings out overnight on my altar-type space.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 08:32:35 pm by Hyacinth Belle »
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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2014, 08:52:03 pm »
Quote from: Hyacinth Belle;143045
As for what I do, I usually pour it down the sink or put food in the trash. That's not the way I'd prefer to do it, and when I lived at my parents where it was easier to dispose outside that's what I did. But now I'm in a second story apartment in town, so it's not ideal. I usually leave offerings out overnight on my altar-type space.

 
One option is to invest in tupperware containers and pack away offerings like you would any other leftovers, taking them out for a natural disposal at a later date. No bugs, no mess, no questions to field. Mild risk for having a family member or roommate eat your offering though, if it looks like normal food.
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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2014, 09:46:54 am »
Quote from: Vaulkhar;143008
As for sacrifices, I was wondering how to go about them and this sounds weird but I am not sure about the mechanics of it all. If I were to, say, have some mead or a beer and just pour it out on the ground and invoke Odin or Thor's name would that do them sufficient honor? Is there more ritual to it than that? What about food? Do I just let it go bad? I know Asatru and Paganism in general are not strictly uniform and a pagan or Asatruar might approach this and other questions in different ways. So I guess I'm wondering how any of you go about doing it. I still have a very protestant(I  guess) mindset in which spirituality is largely "internal" - silent prayers, quiet meditation and contemplation, etc.


Personally, I put food and drink on the shrine/altar and let it sit overnight then the drink (I offer water too) goes on the ground outside and food in the trash. You can put a bit of food from your own plate to the side and let them know it's theirs. Just don't eat that bit. You can also pour out offerings. Both are warrior gods, you could even offer money/time to a veterans charity. If something is not comfortable don't do it. You will get a feel for it as you go.

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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2014, 07:01:10 pm »
Quote from: Sage;143052
One option is to invest in tupperware containers and pack away offerings like you would any other leftovers, taking them out for a natural disposal at a later date. No bugs, no mess, no questions to field. Mild risk for having a family member or roommate eat your offering though, if it looks like normal food.

 
I live alone, so no risk of anyone eating it. :P

It's interesting to think about how important natural disposal might be... honestly, I live in kind of a depressed / poor area of a small city, so there's really not much in the way of land wights. Not a very good vibe on the street. House wights, yes, but besides the overgrown bushes that annoy me on the sidewalk to my car every morning, nothing else with the land going on. There's a large creek not too far away. Something for me to think about...
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makaros

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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2014, 05:17:35 pm »
Quote from: Vaulkhar;143007
Thanks for the advice, I'm taking a look at it now! My other question related to Anglo-Saxon heathenry/Asatru is just how closely do these two paths converge? To me it seems that there is little difference besides the spelling of the names of the gods and certain rituals. Both seem to practice ancestor worship and believe in the same concept of fate or wyrd. So is there any difference? Indeed, it seems as if the two systems are virtually interchangeable.

My understanding is that Anglo-Saxon heathenry can be included in the term "Asatru", as Asatru deals with Germanic polytheism as a whole.  Asatru organizations, on the other hand, might vary in focus.

There is very little difference between A-S heathenry and Norse, like you say, but to my knowledge there isn't the same kind of organization with A-S heathenry as there is with Asatru, but that's probably because A-S heathenry seems to be less widely practiced since a lot of people seem to think that the pre-Christian Anglo-Saxons just copied the Norse myths/practices.  Of course, that's not entirely true and it's obvious once you start delving deeper into the cultural differences (and a religion's cultural base is just as interesting and important as its lore and general practices, IMO).

Anyway, I found an interesting link explaining the minor differences and broad similarities if you or anyone else wants to take a look.

http://wodening.englatheod.org/eric/asatru.html

As an aside, I'm more drawn to Anglo-Saxon heathenry in general since it seems like a kinder, gentler form of heathenry.  I don't know how fair that is to the pre-Christian Norse (the image of the Viking Age Norse is definitely one-dimensional), but England just has a softer feel and I connect with it more, culturally and spiritually.  The dichotomy of a pastoral/farming society vs a warrior society that seems to be significant in Norse history is also strong.  That's just my impression though. :)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 05:18:20 pm by makaroð »

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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2014, 05:24:13 pm »
Quote from: makaroð;143249
My understanding is that Anglo-Saxon heathenry can be included in the term "Asatru", as Asatru deals with Germanic polytheism as a whole.

 
No, Asatru (as seems to be made fairly clear in the link you included later in your post) is Icelandic heathenry. Heathenry would be the umbrella term for Germanic polytheism as a whole.

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Re: Questions about Asatru
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2014, 05:41:18 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;143250
No, Asatru (as seems to be made fairly clear in the link you included later in your post) is Icelandic heathenry. Heathenry would be the umbrella term for Germanic polytheism as a whole.

Sunflower

 
Okay, that makes sense, especially considering modern Asatru got its start there.  I think the confusion came from the fact that some (most?) Asatru kindreds and organizations are inclusive of non-Icelandic heathen traditions.

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Altair

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Chatelaine, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

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