Author Topic: Wiccan Shaman (Read 6414 times)

Nixie-Tartarus · « **on:** January 07, 2014, 03:42:56 am »

I read a little bit about this practice and it seem really interesting to me. I was looking into shamanism because I enjoy meditating and would love to learn how to 'journey' and heal. Yet I feel a very strong pull toward witchcraft too. I can't find any books on the subject of being both a witch and practicing shamanism and there is not much to go on search the internet either. I would like to learn more about and also learn how to practice it to see if it fits me. I would appreciate any information or personal experiences if you practice this path

Faemon · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2014, 04:32:27 am »

Quote from: Nixie-Tartarus;135412

I read a little bit about this practice and it seem really interesting to me. I was looking into shamanism because I enjoy meditating and would love to learn how to 'journey' and heal. Yet I feel a very strong pull toward witchcraft too. I can't find any books on the subject of being both a witch and practicing shamanism and there is not much to go on search the internet either. I would like to learn more about and also learn how to practice it to see if it fits me. I would appreciate any information or personal experiences if you practice this path

There's The Temple of Shamanic Witchcraft by Christopher Penczak, who is Wiccan last I checked so his witchcraft would have some Wiccan flavor to it. I say "some" because he's eclectic, and, sometimes, he's eclectic in a bad way by his pick-and-mix appropriative vocabulary. When I read his stuff from a psionic basis (he never calls it psionic though, but I really was on my way when I started out with psionics so I'm biased) then it's quite practical.

He still remains my all-time favorite author for that, and also because he can be eclectic in a good way (Ascension Magick, for one, bridging whatever gap there might have been between paganism and the newest of new age; and Gay Witchcraft: Empowering the Tribe which was good on him to address directly unlike so many other authors who take queer tolerance as a given but continue with unexamined gendered issues everywhere else).

There's also Michael Hamer's stuff, since he's the founder of the Core Shamanism thing that's been so influential in new ageism. With both these authors, of course, criticisms and detractions should be considered, but I can't recall any single tome that lays the smackdown on Hamer--it's mostly just something I picked up by osmosis as problematic, but if there is a book like that out there, then (well, my social studies teacher told me) it's a good idea to read both.

Nixie-Tartarus · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2014, 10:04:05 am »

Quote from: triple_entendre;135414

There's The Temple of Shamanic Witchcraft by Christopher Penczak, who is Wiccan last I checked so his witchcraft would have some Wiccan flavor to it. I say "some" because he's eclectic, and, sometimes, he's eclectic in a bad way by his pick-and-mix appropriative vocabulary. When I read his stuff from a psionic basis (he never calls it psionic though, but I really was on my way when I started out with psionics so I'm biased) then it's quite practical.

He still remains my all-time favorite author for that, and also because he can be eclectic in a good way (Ascension Magick, for one, bridging whatever gap there might have been between paganism and the newest of new age; and Gay Witchcraft: Empowering the Tribe which was good on him to address directly unlike so many other authors who take queer tolerance as a given but continue with unexamined gendered issues everywhere else).

There's also Michael Hamer's stuff, since he's the founder of the Core Shamanism thing that's been so influential in new ageism. With both these authors, of course, criticisms and detractions should be considered, but I can't recall any single tome that lays the smackdown on Hamer--it's mostly just something I picked up by osmosis as problematic, but if there is a book like that out there, then (well, my social studies teacher told me) it's a good idea to read both.

I just found an awesome book on the subject called 'The Shamanic Witch' by Kristin Madden... I ordered that as well as the 'The Temple of Shamanic Witchcraft' for my kindle!

stephyjh · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2014, 12:52:34 pm »

Quote from: Nixie-Tartarus;135412

I read a little bit about this practice and it seem really interesting to me. I was looking into shamanism because I enjoy meditating and would love to learn how to 'journey' and heal. Yet I feel a very strong pull toward witchcraft too. I can't find any books on the subject of being both a witch and practicing shamanism and there is not much to go on search the internet either. I would like to learn more about and also learn how to practice it to see if it fits me. I would appreciate any information or personal experiences if you practice this path

Anything that claims to be shamanism without having its roots in the nomadic tribes of Siberia is hand-waving cultural appropriation of a "these primitives all look alike to me" variety at best, and fraudulent at worst. There's no such thing as non-Siberian shamanism. The application of the term to practices from other cultures erases the differences between cultures that have little to nothing in common. It's poor scholarship, it's privilege in action, and it's a bad idea.

Gaudior · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2014, 12:59:46 pm »

Quote from: stephyjh;135446

Anything that claims to be shamanism without having its roots in the nomadic tribes of Siberia is hand-waving cultural appropriation of a "these primitives all look alike to me" variety at best, and fraudulent at worst. There's no such thing as non-Siberian shamanism. The application of the term to practices from other cultures erases the differences between cultures that have little to nothing in common. It's poor scholarship, it's privilege in action, and it's a bad idea.

^^^ This :/

Semi-on topic, but whenever I hear "Celtic Shamanism" too, I just bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Nixie-Tartarus · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2014, 01:11:30 pm »

Quote from: stephyjh;135446

Anything that claims to be shamanism without having its roots in the nomadic tribes of Siberia is hand-waving cultural appropriation of a "these primitives all look alike to me" variety at best, and fraudulent at worst. There's no such thing as non-Siberian shamanism. The application of the term to practices from other cultures erases the differences between cultures that have little to nothing in common. It's poor scholarship, it's privilege in action, and it's a bad idea.

Maybe someone can't be both, but if you practice witchcraft there is no reason why you can't incorporate aspects of shamanism. It is something that I just kinda ran into and IMO there is no reason someone can't blend beliefs.

Gaudior · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2014, 01:17:38 pm »

Quote from: Nixie-Tartarus;135450

Maybe someone can't be both, but if you practice witchcraft there is no reason why you can't incorporate aspects of shamanism. It is something that I just kinda ran into and IMO there is no reason someone can't blend beliefs.

:/ The problem is, oftentimes cultural appropriation takes place. Someone may be better at explaining this than I, but it just does not sit right with me.

Micheál · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2014, 01:36:55 pm »

Quote from: Nixie-Tartarus;135450

Maybe someone can't be both, but if you practice witchcraft there is no reason why you can't incorporate aspects of shamanism. It is something that I just kinda ran into and IMO there is no reason someone can't blend beliefs.

It's just the word 'shaman,' which was taken from a certain culture, is often used vaguely in describing similar 'shamanistic' practises and techniques that may have specific terms, and wouldn't be misrepresenting the Siberian Tunges people.

There is trance work, hedge-riding, and other paths that have shamanistic similarities, but isn't actual Shamanism. "Progressive Witchcrat" by Janet Farrar&Gavin Bone might be a book that would be of interest to you.

Sage · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2014, 02:02:02 pm »

Quote from: Nixie-Tartarus;135450

Maybe someone can't be both, but if you practice witchcraft there is no reason why you can't incorporate aspects of shamanism. It is something that I just kinda ran into and IMO there is no reason someone can't blend beliefs.

Despite what the New Age market likes to publish, "shamanism" is something that requires a culture and community of some sort to practice. You can't just pick it up out of a book or even by experimenting a bit at home; it's tied to its home culture and worldviews. In the case of the word "shaman" we're talking about Siberian culture(s), but "shaman" is a word that gets appropriated to mean the role of any priest/mystic/sorcerer in native cultures. Those roles too need a community to function. Being a "shaman" on one's own, completely divorced from the culture that role came from, doesn't make sense. It becomes a bastardization. Even if it is personally meaningful -- which is a distinction I think has no bearing at all on the criticisms at hand -- it's appropriative, naive, and disrespectful.

If someone really wants to be a "shaman" of cultural practices that aren't their own, at the very least I think they'd need to track down said culture, somehow be allowed in, adopt the entire worldview of that culture (which isn't easy if you didn't grow up in it), and then hope the gods/spirits/ancestors/whomever accept you as legit. And then you'd be in for some serious work, because "shamanic" work is not, as the New Age publishers like to push, easy or fun or woo-woo mystical. It's backbreaking soulbending work. You're a servant of the gods and your people.

If that doesn't sound like a fun time, then look at other words and define what you mean. Do you want mystical experiences with the divine? There are tons of paths for that. Do you want to work with spirits and ancestors? Ditto. Are you interested in astral travel or shadow work? Same. You have a dizzying array of options available to you. When I first started doing Pagan stuff when I was 16/17, I was confused about "shamanism" too. Helped in no small part, I'm sure, by Scott Cunningham's inclusion of a "Shamanism" chapter in his Wicca 101 book. But this is a case where it's very, very important to look at history, definitions, and living cultures before making any spiritual decisions.

SerpentineSorcerer · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2014, 03:17:36 pm »

Quote from: Sage;135455

Despite what the New Age market likes to publish, "shamanism" is something that requires a culture and community of some sort to practice. You can't just pick it up out of a book or even by experimenting a bit at home; it's tied to its home culture and worldviews. In the case of the word "shaman" we're talking about Siberian culture(s), but "shaman" is a word that gets appropriated to mean the role of any priest/mystic/sorcerer in native cultures. Those roles too need a community to function. Being a "shaman" on one's own, completely divorced from the culture that role came from, doesn't make sense. It becomes a bastardization. Even if it is personally meaningful -- which is a distinction I think has no bearing at all on the criticisms at hand -- it's appropriative, naive, and disrespectful.

If someone really wants to be a "shaman" of cultural practices that aren't their own, at the very least I think they'd need to track down said culture, somehow be allowed in, adopt the entire worldview of that culture (which isn't easy if you didn't grow up in it), and then hope the gods/spirits/ancestors/whomever accept you as legit. And then you'd be in for some serious work, because "shamanic" work is not, as the New Age publishers like to push, easy or fun or woo-woo mystical. It's backbreaking soulbending work. You're a servant of the gods and your people.

If that doesn't sound like a fun time, then look at other words and define what you mean. Do you want mystical experiences with the divine? There are tons of paths for that. Do you want to work with spirits and ancestors? Ditto. Are you interested in astral travel or shadow work? Same. You have a dizzying array of options available to you. When I first started doing Pagan stuff when I was 16/17, I was confused about "shamanism" too. Helped in no small part, I'm sure, by Scott Cunningham's inclusion of a "Shamanism" chapter in his Wicca 101 book. But this is a case where it's very, very important to look at history, definitions, and living cultures before making any spiritual decisions.

If this hit the issue anymore on the head there would be a thunderclap that Set, Zeus, and Thor would be proud of.

Nixie-Tartarus · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2014, 05:28:26 pm »

Quote from: Sage;135455

Despite what the New Age market likes to publish, "shamanism" is something that requires a culture and community of some sort to practice. You can't just pick it up out of a book or even by experimenting a bit at home; it's tied to its home culture and worldviews. In the case of the word "shaman" we're talking about Siberian culture(s), but "shaman" is a word that gets appropriated to mean the role of any priest/mystic/sorcerer in native cultures. Those roles too need a community to function. Being a "shaman" on one's own, completely divorced from the culture that role came from, doesn't make sense. It becomes a bastardization. Even if it is personally meaningful -- which is a distinction I think has no bearing at all on the criticisms at hand -- it's appropriative, naive, and disrespectful.

If someone really wants to be a "shaman" of cultural practices that aren't their own, at the very least I think they'd need to track down said culture, somehow be allowed in, adopt the entire worldview of that culture (which isn't easy if you didn't grow up in it), and then hope the gods/spirits/ancestors/whomever accept you as legit. And then you'd be in for some serious work, because "shamanic" work is not, as the New Age publishers like to push, easy or fun or woo-woo mystical. It's backbreaking soulbending work. You're a servant of the gods and your people.

If that doesn't sound like a fun time, then look at other words and define what you mean. Do you want mystical experiences with the divine? There are tons of paths for that. Do you want to work with spirits and ancestors? Ditto. Are you interested in astral travel or shadow work? Same. You have a dizzying array of options available to you. When I first started doing Pagan stuff when I was 16/17, I was confused about "shamanism" too. Helped in no small part, I'm sure, by Scott Cunningham's inclusion of a "Shamanism" chapter in his Wicca 101 book. But this is a case where it's very, very important to look at history, definitions, and living cultures before making any spiritual decisions.

It was just something I came along that I was curious about, that's why I asked your guys opinion. I never stated I was going to jump right into it without more knowledge. As far as recommendations, I did download and am currently reading Progressive Witchcraft. Thanks Micheál

Micheál · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2014, 05:57:34 pm »

Quote from: Nixie-Tartarus;135485

It was just something I came along that I was curious about, that's why I asked your guys opinion. I never stated I was going to jump right into it without more knowledge. As far as recommendations, I did download and am currently reading Progressive Witchcraft. Thanks Micheál

You're welcome

Freesia · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2014, 03:39:40 am »

Quote from: Nixie-Tartarus;135485

It was just something I came along that I was curious about, that's why I asked your guys opinion. I never stated I was going to jump right into it without more knowledge.

You have every right to be curious. There is a lot of material out there and it is tempting to read it all. I'm an insane book worm and was lost on Amazon trying to pin down only three books. Ended up putting aside the cart to do research and soul search before I spend any more money.

We do not take the easy road when we take the Pagan Path. Ours is a ritual, folklore, crafty, earthy, a little spacey, and as dirty as you want it kind of life. We can step forward and backwards as many times as we need with no judgement.

I've studied a lot of religions. I even tried to become a Buddhist for a short time. That didn't work at all. I've never found anything that pulls my hair like Paganism.

Nixie-Tartarus · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2014, 05:44:14 am »

Quote from: Freesia;135555

You have every right to be curious. There is a lot of material out there and it is tempting to read it all. I'm an insane book worm and was lost on Amazon trying to pin down only three books. Ended up putting aside the cart to do research and soul search before I spend any more money.

We do not take the easy road when we take the Pagan Path. Ours is a ritual, folklore, crafty, earthy, a little spacey, and as dirty as you want it kind of life. We can step forward and backwards as many times as we need with no judgement.

I've studied a lot of religions. I even tried to become a Buddhist for a short time. That didn't work at all. I've never found anything that pulls my hair like Paganism.

Thank you. I also want to do some research on hedge witchcraft and was wondering if anyone knows any good resources for that?

herenow · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2014, 07:03:32 am »

Quote from: Sage;135455

... Do you want mystical experiences with the divine? There are tons of paths for that. Do you want to work with spirits and ancestors? Ditto. Are you interested in astral travel or shadow work? Same. You have a dizzying array of options available to you. ...

Good stuff, that.

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