Author Topic: Paganism with No Deities? (Read 2551 times)

itsrelly · « **on:** December 26, 2013, 09:29:48 pm »

Good evening all,

I am new to the board and looking for guidance! Let me give you a little backstory, I grew up Christian, then became confused, then learned about and "practiced" Wicca for about a year as a teenager, and since then have been identifying as atheist. I have always felt a strong connection with nature, am my happiest enjoying the beach, a hike in the woods, a drive through the country to explore new lands, etc. Of course I know this doesn't automatically mean I should be a Pagan, however I also feel that spirituality is important, and since my year as a Wiccan have always been curious and longing for a Pagan path.

My question then, is which of the Pagan branches don't believe in any deities? I am comfortable in the thought that "she is everywhere", that nature IS the divine, but not that there is a specific God(s) or Goddess(es) to which I should worship. I'd like to connect myself with nature and follow a spiritual path, but don't particularly believe in a greater Being. I've been trying to research this topic but I can't seem to find any one place to really break this question down for me by each branch of Paganism. I'd love some guidance. Thank you!

itsrelly · « **Reply #1 on:** December 26, 2013, 09:38:23 pm »

Quote from: itsrelly;134125

Good evening all,

I am new to the board and looking for guidance! Let me give you a little backstory, I grew up Christian, then became confused, then learned about and "practiced" Wicca for about a year as a teenager, and since then have been identifying as atheist. I have always felt a strong connection with nature, am my happiest enjoying the beach, a hike in the woods, a drive through the country to explore new lands, etc. Of course I know this doesn't automatically mean I should be a Pagan, however I also feel that spirituality is important, and since my year as a Wiccan have always been curious and longing for a Pagan path.

My question then, is which of the Pagan branches don't believe in any deities? I am comfortable in the thought that "she is everywhere", that nature IS the divine, but not that there is a specific God(s) or Goddess(es) to which I should worship. I'd like to connect myself with nature and follow a spiritual path, but don't particularly believe in a greater Being. I've been trying to research this topic but I can't seem to find any one place to really break this question down for me by each branch of Paganism. I'd love some guidance. Thank you!

I do assume I most closely relate with Pantheism, but I'm not sure where exactly that leaves me in terms of the branches of Paganism.

yewberry · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2013, 01:25:28 am »

Quote from: itsrelly;134125

My question then, is which of the Pagan branches don't believe in any deities?

I know of none that self-identify as pagan. There are plenty that don't really care whether you believe in literal deities or just archetypes (including some forms of Wicca).

Personally, I'm a self-styled solitary pagan who doesn't believe in deities. I celebrate the seasons with friends and family, despite most of them not being pagan of any stripe. I find it very fulfilling spiritually.

My path does involve a certain amount of "woo" that many atheists find problematic (magic, beings/energies that I work with/acknowledge but don't worship), but there's no reason a pagan path need contain these aspects. You can honor nature, have seasonal holidays that celebrate the seasons, etc., without involving gods.

Brina

itsrelly · « **Reply #3 on:** December 27, 2013, 09:43:45 am »

Quote from: yewberry;134146

I know of none that self-identify as pagan. There are plenty that don't really care whether you believe in literal deities or just archetypes (including some forms of Wicca).

Personally, I'm a self-styled solitary pagan who doesn't believe in deities. I celebrate the seasons with friends and family, despite most of them not being pagan of any stripe. I find it very fulfilling spiritually.

My path does involve a certain amount of "woo" that many atheists find problematic (magic, beings/energies that I work with/acknowledge but don't worship), but there's no reason a pagan path need contain these aspects. You can honor nature, have seasonal holidays that celebrate the seasons, etc., without involving gods.

Brina

Thanks Brina! I spoke to a few other members in chat last night and they suggested that Pantheism is a path all on it's own, and that I can still choose to identify as a Pagan but that I don't need a specific Pagan religion to be a part of. It makes lots of sense. I would like to find one that most closely reflects my beliefs however to find myself "at home" with a more concise group. If that makes any sense. I will look into Wicca more closely and see if some of the groups believe less literally in the deities. Thank you!

itsrelly · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2013, 11:19:18 am »

Quote from: itsrelly;134166

Thanks Brina! I spoke to a few other members in chat last night and they suggested that Pantheism is a path all on it's own, and that I can still choose to identify as a Pagan but that I don't need a specific Pagan religion to be a part of. It makes lots of sense. I would like to find one that most closely reflects my beliefs however to find myself "at home" with a more concise group. If that makes any sense. I will look into Wicca more closely and see if some of the groups believe less literally in the deities. Thank you!

Well I found it after some more research this morning which involved clicking link after link through a large portal of Pagan and Pantheism resources finding myself moving from one site to another. I landed on something called "Naturalistic Paganism" which is predominantly Pantheistic and very eclectic in its beliefs. It follows Pagan rituals and uses Pagan symbolism, but remains Pantheistic and lacks a belief in deities or supernatural workings. I also found a fair amount of resistance from traditional Pagans about people lumping this philosophy in with Paganism, however I believe that they are forgetting that the original meaning of Pagan was any religion that wasn't Christian. Thoughts?

yewberry · « **Reply #5 on:** December 27, 2013, 12:25:20 pm »

Quote from: itsrelly;134167

Well I found it after some more research this morning which involved clicking link after link through a large portal of Pagan and Pantheism resources finding myself moving from one site to another. I landed on something called "Naturalistic Paganism" which is predominantly Pantheistic and very eclectic in its beliefs. It follows Pagan rituals and uses Pagan symbolism, but remains Pantheistic and lacks a belief in deities or supernatural workings.

I have issues with some aspects of the World Pantheist Movement, primarily because some of its founding members seemed to want to coop the term "pantheist" to mean only their particular brand of it. I've been at the receiving end of some pretty dismissive and derogatory stuff from a tiny-but-vocal minority of its adherents. While this hasn't soured me on the group as a whole, it do have a certain amount of trepidation discussing my own pantheism with its members as a result.

Quote

I also found a fair amount of resistance from traditional Pagans about people lumping this philosophy in with Paganism, however I believe that they are forgetting that the original meaning of Pagan was any religion that wasn't Christian. Thoughts?

People get their panties bunched about any number of things. Screw 'em. Always try to look like the sane, rational one and you'll be fine.

Brina

itsrelly · « **Reply #6 on:** December 27, 2013, 12:45:46 pm »

Quote from: yewberry;134172

I have issues with some aspects of the World Pantheist Movement, primarily because some of its founding members seemed to want to coop the term "pantheist" to mean only their particular brand of it. I've been at the receiving end of some pretty dismissive and derogatory stuff from a tiny-but-vocal minority of its adherents. While this hasn't soured me on the group as a whole, it do have a certain amount of trepidation discussing my own pantheism with its members as a result.

I didn't particularly like some of what the Pantheist websites said myself. I wouldn't choose to associate with their group regardless of sharing similar beliefs. I think that's why I found myself venturing more onto the Naturalist Pagan sites instead.

Quote from: yewberry;134172

People get their panties bunched about any number of things. Screw 'em. Always try to look like the sane, rational one and you'll be fine.

Thanks for the tip.

yewberry · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2013, 01:00:18 pm »

Quote from: itsrelly;134178

I didn't particularly like some of what the Pantheist websites said myself. I wouldn't choose to associate with their group regardless of sharing similar beliefs. I think that's why I found myself venturing more onto the Naturalist Pagan sites instead.

The WPM has actually changed quite a bit since its founding. The original council has largely moved on or softened some of their language. The organization is much more diverse and somewhat more inclusive now. It still doesn't reflect my practices or beliefs, but it's definitely a different critter these days.

Brina

Enid · « **Reply #8 on:** December 27, 2013, 02:29:11 pm »

Quote from: itsrelly;134125

My question then, is which of the Pagan branches don't believe in any deities?

I know some people who are Druids that don't have a firm belief in a supreme deity. This article sums it up pretty well.

http://philipcarrgomm.wordpress.com/2013/09/19/does-god-exist-and-the-crowning-achievement-of-druidry/

letty · « **Reply #9 on:** December 27, 2013, 02:48:19 pm »

Quote from: itsrelly;134125

Good evening all,

I am new to the board and looking for guidance! Let me give you a little backstory, I grew up Christian, then became confused, then learned about and "practiced" Wicca for about a year as a teenager, and since then have been identifying as atheist. I have always felt a strong connection with nature, am my happiest enjoying the beach, a hike in the woods, a drive through the country to explore new lands, etc. Of course I know this doesn't automatically mean I should be a Pagan, however I also feel that spirituality is important, and since my year as a Wiccan have always been curious and longing for a Pagan path.

My question then, is which of the Pagan branches don't believe in any deities? I am comfortable in the thought that "she is everywhere", that nature IS the divine, but not that there is a specific God(s) or Goddess(es) to which I should worship. I'd like to connect myself with nature and follow a spiritual path, but don't particularly believe in a greater Being. I've been trying to research this topic but I can't seem to find any one place to really break this question down for me by each branch of Paganism. I'd love some guidance. Thank you!

It might be useful to look into something like Feri, which mentions gods and goddesses, but has flexible ideas about what that means (for example, they could represent energies in oneself, aspects of the world, archetypes, etc.). I think that many paths are understood this way by a lot of people who are Pagans (though of course, there are hard polytheists, too). I also am not particularly interested in specific gods and goddesses or the "belief" aspect of spirituality, and Feri (I've been reading T Thorn Coyle's "Evolutionary Witchcraft") has been a way to create a practice and get clarity on how to really 'work with' certain ideas without necessarily making them about gods or goddesses in particular.

yewberry · « **Reply #10 on:** December 27, 2013, 04:43:49 pm »

Quote from: letty;134190

I also am not particularly interested in specific gods and goddesses or the "belief" aspect of spirituality, and Feri (I've been reading T Thorn Coyle's "Evolutionary Witchcraft") has been a way to create a practice and get clarity on how to really 'work with' certain ideas without necessarily making them about gods or goddesses in particular.

Unfortunately, itsrelly mentions here that she's also not interested in "supernatural workings", so I imagine that probably wouldn't include witchcraft.

Brina

itsrelly · « **Reply #11 on:** December 27, 2013, 06:49:17 pm »

Quote from: Enid;134189

I know some people who are Druids that don't have a firm belief in a supreme deity. This article sums it up pretty well.

http://philipcarrgomm.wordpress.com/2013/09/19/does-god-exist-and-the-crowning-achievement-of-druidry/

Thanks for sharing that article! It really gave a more concise answer about what Druidity really is. The sources I had read previous to it were rather vague and had too many different answers.

itsrelly · « **Reply #12 on:** December 27, 2013, 06:52:19 pm »

Quote from: letty;134190

It might be useful to look into something like Feri, which mentions gods and goddesses, but has flexible ideas about what that means (for example, they could represent energies in oneself, aspects of the world, archetypes, etc.). I think that many paths are understood this way by a lot of people who are Pagans (though of course, there are hard polytheists, too). I also am not particularly interested in specific gods and goddesses or the "belief" aspect of spirituality, and Feri (I've been reading T Thorn Coyle's "Evolutionary Witchcraft") has been a way to create a practice and get clarity on how to really 'work with' certain ideas without necessarily making them about gods or goddesses in particular.

Thanks for the suggestion, though I did some looking into Feri, and it seemed to have too much of a supernatural kind of feel to it. Though, I by no means did extensive research.

itsrelly · « **Reply #13 on:** December 27, 2013, 06:52:39 pm »

Quote from: yewberry;134197

Unfortunately, itsrelly mentions here that she's also not interested in "supernatural workings", so I imagine that probably wouldn't include witchcraft.

Brina

You nailed it on the head Brina, thanks.

SunflowerP · « **Reply #14 on:** December 27, 2013, 07:59:37 pm »

Quote from: itsrelly;134166

Thanks Brina! I spoke to a few other members in chat last night and they suggested that Pantheism is a path all on it's own, and that I can still choose to identify as a Pagan but that I don't need a specific Pagan religion to be a part of. It makes lots of sense. I would like to find one that most closely reflects my beliefs however to find myself "at home" with a more concise group. If that makes any sense. I will look into Wicca more closely and see if some of the groups believe less literally in the deities. Thank you!

One thing to keep in mind is that many pagan religions are orthopraxic, not orthodoxic - that is, they centre on practice, not beliefs. So in any given group of that sort, you're liable to find a wide range of different beliefs about the nature of the divine.

That said, quite a lot of them are theistic, rather than non-theistic. To give just one of many possible cases, a practitioner might see the deities of that religion as being archetypes, and thus constructions/projections of the human mind, but that still acknowledges deities.

For things that are non-theistic or theism-optional, besides the naturalistic pantheism organizations, what comes to mind are some of the druid groups (as others have mentioned), humanistic paganism, and FlameKeeping.

It'd also very likely be a good idea for you to look at a wider range of pagan religions than just the ones that sound like they'd fit you - approaches to theism from an orthopraxic perspective can be very different from orthodoctrinal theism, and getting an idea of the broader picture of how it works will likely be useful to you.

Sunflower

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