Author Topic: Interest vs. Plausibility vs. Belief (Read 2172 times)

Sola Stone · « **on:** December 08, 2013, 03:31:28 pm »

Recently, I've had cause to do some serious self-examination regarding my beliefs and have realized that I'm not sure what it is that I really believe. By that I mean that there are some very basic, nuts-and-bolts type questions that I can't confidently answer (ex. What do you believe the general nature of deity is?). My problem is that I seem to have difficultly distinguishing between things/ideas that I think are interesting, things/ideas that I find plausible, and things/ideas that I actually really believe in.

So, my questions are: Has anyone else had problems in this area? If so, how do you make the distinction between "Oooh, shiny!", "Yeah, I can see that...", and "I definitely believe this."?

(After reading over this a few times, it occurs to me that I might ought to just call myself an agnostic and be done with it... Except that I don't think I've done enough introspection to firmly say "I don't know.", either. Is it possible to be unsure about whether or not one is unsure about something?

:)

Darkhawk · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2013, 04:00:54 pm »

Quote from: Sola Stone;131789

By that I mean that there are some very basic, nuts-and-bolts type questions that I can't confidently answer (ex. What do you believe the general nature of deity is?).

I think it's worth noting that nuts-and-bolts type questions are the sorts of things that hold a practice together, and need to be loadbearing; in my experience, stuff like speculations about the true nature of deity is, at most, decorative trim; it might be nice to have, and you can paint it all sorts of pretty colours, but it's not structurally important.

Quote

So, my questions are: Has anyone else had problems in this area? If so, how do you make the distinction between "Oooh, shiny!", "Yeah, I can see that...", and "I definitely believe this."?

Today's aphorism: "Perceive first. Then believe."

Aiwelin · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2013, 06:05:05 pm »

Quote from: Darkhawk;131792

Today's aphorism: "Perceive first. Then believe."

This. After 10+ years of an evolving Pagan practice, I'm still not sure what I believe. Right now - I do some stuff, and it works, and that works for me.

MadZealot · « **Reply #3 on:** December 08, 2013, 08:20:49 pm »

Quote from: Aiwelin;131815

This. After 10+ years of an evolving Pagan practice, I'm still not sure what I believe. Right now - I do some stuff, and it works, and that works for me.

Yep. My beliefs have been in something of a flux for years now, and I see no reason to change that. This may sound trite, but at this state I find "the journey" to be more important than the "the destination"; at the very least it's more interesting to me than if my beliefs were static.

To the OP: you could always try writing down what you believe, or what you think you believe. In pencil.

yewberry · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2013, 09:59:15 am »

Quote from: Darkhawk;131792

Today's aphorism: "Perceive first. Then believe."

Brina

letty · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2013, 06:45:55 pm »

Quote from: Sola Stone;131789

Recently, I've had cause to do some serious self-examination regarding my beliefs and have realized that I'm not sure what it is that I really believe. By that I mean that there are some very basic, nuts-and-bolts type questions that I can't confidently answer (ex. What do you believe the general nature of deity is?). My problem is that I seem to have difficultly distinguishing between things/ideas that I think are interesting, things/ideas that I find plausible, and things/ideas that I actually really believe in.

So, my questions are: Has anyone else had problems in this area? If so, how do you make the distinction between "Oooh, shiny!", "Yeah, I can see that...", and "I definitely believe this."?

(After reading over this a few times, it occurs to me that I might ought to just call myself an agnostic and be done with it... Except that I don't think I've done enough introspection to firmly say "I don't know.", either. Is it possible to be unsure about whether or not one is unsure about something? :)

I don't see a lot of purpose in setting aside ironclad "beliefs" about the world. For me, belief is not central, practice is. So there are many ideas I find interesting, that appeal to me, and many practices that have helped me, so I do them with a very open "what if" in terms of worldview or beliefs. Since there is absolutely no way for me to know much of anything about the world beyond my sense for certain, I gravitate toward what interests me and what feels right. But I am very, very wary of beliefs and generally do not speak in terms of belief. Technically, I am probably an atheist, but I don't define myself that way, because belief in a god or gods or not doesn't really define who I am or what matters to me.

Rayne · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2013, 08:40:40 pm »

Quote from: letty;131949

I don't see a lot of purpose in setting aside ironclad "beliefs" about the world. For me, belief is not central, practice is. So there are many ideas I find interesting, that appeal to me, and many practices that have helped me, so I do them with a very open "what if" in terms of worldview or beliefs.

A +1 to this from me.

My beliefs modify due to experiences. F'ex...from agnostic sort of nobody, to a hard pantheist who wore out multiple copies of Joseph Campbell books....down the line to a barely squishy (mostly hard) polytheist.

All through experiences.

Enid · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2013, 09:10:38 pm »

Quote from: Sola Stone;131789

So, my questions are: Has anyone else had problems in this area? If so, how do you make the distinction between "Oooh, shiny!", "Yeah, I can see that...", and "I definitely believe this."?

To be honest, I think a lot of people might call me fickle, because I tend to change my path, though my core beliefs seem to stay the same. However, my core beliefs allow for that, since my life changes, and different paths seem clearest for that point in my life.

A lot of my life is "Yeah, I can see that..." but that is partially because one of the things I really value is community. So I am willing to say, join an active Wiccan coven if that is the group that most closely meets my needs, even if my personal beliefs fall more into Druid/Northern Tradition.

Sola Stone · « **Reply #8 on:** January 02, 2014, 10:54:04 pm »

Quote from: Darkhawk;131792

I think it's worth noting that nuts-and-bolts type questions are the sorts of things that hold a practice together, and need to be loadbearing; in my experience, stuff like speculations about the true nature of deity is, at most, decorative trim; it might be nice to have, and you can paint it all sorts of pretty colours, but it's not structurally important.

Interesting. What would you consider a nuts-and-bolts question, then?

Quote

Today's aphorism: "Perceive first. Then believe."

So... "I'll believe it when I see it"?

Sola Stone · « **Reply #9 on:** January 02, 2014, 11:29:58 pm »

Quote from: MadZealot;131831

Yep. My beliefs have been in something of a flux for years now, and I see no reason to change that. This may sound trite, but at this state I find "the journey" to be more important than the "the destination"; at the very least it's more interesting to me than if my beliefs were static.

To the OP: you could always try writing down what you believe, or what you think you believe. In pencil.

I actually prefer a word processor for that, but I take your meaning.

I have always found value in the journey/destination sentiment, even if I don't always live by it. Static can equate to stagnate, which is a dangerous trap to fall into. Even knowing that, though, change can often throw one for a loop...

I am, perhaps, too rigid, at times. It's my sciencey side wanting there to be one correct answer to everything and for everything to fit neatly into little boxes labeled with the corresponding category. Of course, I know that the world doesn't work that way, but that doesn't stop my brain from saying that everything should be that simple.

Darkhawk · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2014, 10:35:23 am »

Quote from: Sola Stone;134871

Interesting. What would you consider a nuts-and-bolts question, then?

How do you treat other people?
How do you decide what to eat?
How do you recognise important events?
How do you pray for the dead?

Quote

So... "I'll believe it when I see it"?

No, not an aggressive declaration of belligerent skepticism.

Kairos · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2014, 05:56:31 pm »

Quote from: Sola Stone;131789

Recently, I've had cause to do some serious self-examination regarding my beliefs and have realized that I'm not sure what it is that I really believe. By that I mean that there are some very basic, nuts-and-bolts type questions that I can't confidently answer (ex. What do you believe the general nature of deity is?). My problem is that I seem to have difficultly distinguishing between things/ideas that I think are interesting, things/ideas that I find plausible, and things/ideas that I actually really believe in.

So, my questions are: Has anyone else had problems in this area? If so, how do you make the distinction between "Oooh, shiny!", "Yeah, I can see that...", and "I definitely believe this."?

(After reading over this a few times, it occurs to me that I might ought to just call myself an agnostic and be done with it... Except that I don't think I've done enough introspection to firmly say "I don't know.", either. Is it possible to be unsure about whether or not one is unsure about something? :)

I think of myself as a construer rather than a believer. I guess I believe in the Divinities, but that I believe isn't very interesting or important to me. For me it is kind of like believing that water is wet or that my mother gave birth to me.

I tend to not worry about what I think I believe since what I think I believe does not always accord with how I act or how I feel about the way I have acted, and that just means that I sometimes don't really believe what I think I believe. It's kind of like the difference between saying to yourself "It's good to be generous" but being miserly and just being generous without thinking about it. You can certainly think that generosity is a good thing and be generous, but thinking it is no guarantee that you will be.

What I think I'm trying to say is to not sweat over what to believe. Try to be friendly with your beliefs, even the ones that feel a little crazy or stupid or just plain wrong. Enjoy their company and when they are ready to change, they'll change without you doing anything at all.

ethelwulf · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2014, 01:44:05 am »

Quote from: Sola Stone;131789

Recently, I've had cause to do some serious self-examination regarding my beliefs and have realized that I'm not sure what it is that I really believe. By that I mean that there are some very basic, nuts-and-bolts type questions that I can't confidently answer (ex. What do you believe the general nature of deity is?). My problem is that I seem to have difficultly distinguishing between things/ideas that I think are interesting, things/ideas that I find plausible, and things/ideas that I actually really believe in.

So, my questions are: Has anyone else had problems in this area? If so, how do you make the distinction between "Oooh, shiny!", "Yeah, I can see that...", and "I definitely believe this."?

:)

Most religions have the problem of believing in something that may not be easily proved or demonstrated. Most religions have aspects to the to help deal with this problem. For example the Abrahamic religions have several ways to help people believe in their faith.
1. They have the advantage of a long documented history that extends into antiquity.
2. They also have and agreed on Sacred Text that creates the framework for their religion. In Judaism the sacred text is called the Torah. Christians also have their version of the Torah (some minor differences in what is included but basically the same) which they refer to as the Old Testament. In addition they have a second sacred book called the New Testament. The written word has a powerful effect on believing.
3. They have a structured organization system that creates a sense of authority (The amount of organization does vary between different branches of Abrahamic faiths but most have a well-organized structure.

In comparison paganism's link to the past has been contested. The original modern pagan movements in the 1950s felt there was an unbroken link to the past. Since then the unbroken link has been questioned with many pagans believing there is no link and that modern paganism is just that, Modern. Others still disagree and feel that the link may be fragmented but still exists. Most pagan groups do not have a Sacred text to base their faith on. Many of the pre-Christian pagan groups had an oral tradition to pass down their beliefs. Finally there is an organization structure for some of the branches of paganism but not for paganism as a whole which has often been discussed in this forum. So what do pagans have.
1. Individual experiences which help you to develop your beliefs
2. Each other. If you are lucky to live in a place were pagans have meeting or in Forums like this one.
3. A growing source of writing both academic and non-academic writings. Many of these reflect a specific type of paganism but others have tried to provide a more generalized view of paganism, well at least their view of paganism.

The point is that unlike some other religious groups who often recruit new members and indoctrinate them into their faith, pagans have to do it more on their own and that comes with more doubts and re-examinations of what you believe. I believe the answers are there for you or me or anyone wanting to be a pagan as long as we are willing to look.

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Author Topic: Interest vs. Plausibility vs. Belief (Read 2172 times)

Sola Stone

Interest vs. Plausibility vs. Belief

Darkhawk

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Aiwelin

Re: Interest vs. Plausibility vs. Belief

MadZealot

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yewberry

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letty

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Rayne

Interest vs. Plausibility vs. Belief

Enid

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Sola Stone

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Sola Stone

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Darkhawk

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Kairos

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ethelwulf

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