Author Topic: What might be ultimqte goal (Read 4053 times)

futureseek · « **on:** November 16, 2013, 05:52:51 pm »

What especially interests me is what the ultimate goal of Paganism might be over the next ten thousand years. I assume that the goal is to somehow create a better life for everyone, but what might be some of the things included in a such a better life by ten thousand years from now?

It is possible that the ultimate goal might be somewhat different for different Pagan traditions, and my feeling is that that would be OK.

But then again, it might turn out that the ultimate goal might be the same for all Pagan traditions.

Jim

Sage · « **Reply #1 on:** November 16, 2013, 06:12:55 pm »

Quote from: futureseek;129593

What especially interests me is what the ultimate goal of Paganism might be over the next ten thousand years. I assume that the goal is to somehow create a better life for everyone, but what might be some of the things included in a such a better life by ten thousand years from now?

It is possible that the ultimate goal might be somewhat different for different Pagan traditions, and my feeling is that that would be OK.

But then again, it might turn out that the ultimate goal might be the same for all Pagan traditions.

Jim

I'm confused what you mean by "ultimate goal" and why you're assuming Pagans would have one. My religion is incredibly personal and self centered. My religion is about me and me only. Now, I might be able to use religion to express my identity as a social justice supporter or to practice my ethics, but that's still centered around me. To be honest I don't care what paganism looks like years or centuries down the line. That's almost as boring to me as what happens when we die.

Darkhawk · « **Reply #2 on:** November 16, 2013, 06:35:32 pm »

Quote from: futureseek;129593

What especially interests me is what the ultimate goal of Paganism might be over the next ten thousand years.

Nonexistent.

Personally, this pagan person is really wary of people who have grand ultimate goals at all, because generally speaking, the end results are horrible for those who don't adhere to the relevant ideology.

RandallS · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2013, 08:28:34 am »

Quote from: futureseek;129593

It is possible that the ultimate goal might be somewhat different for different Pagan traditions, and my feeling is that that would be OK.

If there are any ultimate goals, I suspect they will vary (sometimes greatly) between Pagan religions. The ultimate goal(s) of Wicca are unlikely be the same as the ultimate goal(s) of Kemetic Paganism, for example -- unless the goals are so vague as to be all but meaningless.

However, I doubt there are ultimate goals other than those set by human leaders based mainly on their own personal views.

futureseek · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2013, 12:14:25 pm »

Quote from: RandallS;129622

If there are any ultimate goals, I suspect they will vary (sometimes greatly) between Pagan religions. The ultimate goal(s) of Wicca are unlikely be the same as the ultimate goal(s) of Kemetic Paganism, for example -- unless the goals are so vague as to be all but meaningless.

However, I doubt there are ultimate goals other than those set by human leaders based mainly on their own personal views.

From your responses, the ultimate goal may not be set by leaders. Also, it has to give full freedom for individuals to develop as they wish.

Faemon · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2013, 09:26:44 pm »

Quote from: futureseek;129593

What especially interests me is what the ultimate goal of Paganism might be over the next ten thousand years.

The first mudskipper didn't think, "I'm going to find a way to get on-land so that I can invent the interwebs."

Nobody plans these things. The ultimate goal is different for every individual, and while a tentative goal might be set for a lifetime there is none for the entire community for ten thousand years. The next generation is free to take this generation as it will, in the direction they feel called to. In the meantime, we just find what resonates with us, what helps, and what community we click with.

...Fine. I'm waiting for King Arthur to come back and the Illuminati to stop training talentless pop stars. You happy now? :p

HeartShadow · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2013, 08:21:31 am »

Quote from: futureseek;129593

What especially interests me is what the ultimate goal of Paganism might be over the next ten thousand years. I assume that the goal is to somehow create a better life for everyone, but what might be some of the things included in a such a better life by ten thousand years from now?

It is possible that the ultimate goal might be somewhat different for different Pagan traditions, and my feeling is that that would be OK.

But then again, it might turn out that the ultimate goal might be the same for all Pagan traditions.

Jim

Ten thousand years?

Heck, at this rate of technical change, I'm not sure we'd even recognize ourselves in five hundred years, much less ten thousand. Making goals for people living lives I don't strikes me as presumptuous in the extreme!

futureseek · « **Reply #7 on:** November 18, 2013, 12:44:19 pm »

Quote from: triple_entendre;129666

The first mudskipper didn't think, "I'm going to find a way to get on-land so that I can invent the interwebs."

Nobody plans these things. The ultimate goal is different for every individual, and while a tentative goal might be set for a lifetime there is none for the entire community for ten thousand years. The next generation is free to take this generation as it will, in the direction they feel called to. In the meantime, we just find what resonates with us, what helps, and what community we click with.

...Fine. I'm waiting for King Arthur to come back and the Illuminati to stop training talentless pop stars. You happy now? :p

Yes, I agree that the next generation should be free. Therefore, using the freedom goal of those who posted previous messages, the goal might also be acquiring knowledge that the future generations can make use of if they wish.

From your next paragraph, the ultimate goal might also be a system which would allow people to have experiences like being with King Arthur - for those and only those who wished. In other words, some superadvanced system of knowledge and technology which would make it possible for each person to have his or her dreams, including moving through as many as an individual wished, one after the other.

Jim

futureseek · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2013, 01:11:25 pm »

Quote from: HeartShadow;129690

Ten thousand years?

Heck, at this rate of technical change, I'm not sure we'd even recognize ourselves in five hundred years, much less ten thousand. Making goals for people living lives I don't strikes me as presumptuous in the extreme!

Yes, we need to be presumptuous for maximum creativity. Hexagram 10 of the I Ching, Lu (treading) in part says, "Treading on the tail of the tiger. It does not bite the man. Success."

Fundamentally, it means that one treads on one's superior, but because one's motives are so good, it is OK. So one can be presumptuous if ones motivation is good.

There are shorter term things which derive from an ultimate goal if the ultimate goal is something like all knowledge. For example, we might want to employ several hundred million humans in each generation doing research, rather than the few million we employ now. We might want to stop greenhouse warming and try to restore some of the natural ecosystem so that there can be a ten thousand years from now. That might be possible if we could discover an adequately inexpensive way to make all our food from carbon dioxide, water, and other chemicals. The only thing that keeps us from doing that now is that we don't yet know how to do it inexpensively.

What I think I would like for myself, if I reincarnate on earth ten thousand years from now, would be to live in a village in the forest, natural and wild, with a few discretely hidden machines making food and other needs, and access to an archive with all music, movies, etc. that humanity had ever created. But many other people might want something different, so they would have what they want as well.

Unless it turns out that we can find knowledge that would enable people to live in th suprafield of consciousness without a body, each being able to create his or ker own surroundings and experiences, also shared surroundings and experiments for friends who want that, temporarily or permanently. Becoming able to do that in the suprafield would give everyone a vast number of additional options.

Creating either of the above would require much more knowledge than we have now. I'm not certain it's possible, but more knowledge would answer that question.

Jim

Darkhawk · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2013, 02:02:30 pm »

Quote from: futureseek;129715

From your next paragraph, the ultimate goal might also be a system which would allow people to have experiences like being with King Arthur - for those and only those who wished.

Why does there have to be a "the ultimate goal" (I mean, setting aside the fact that "the ultimate goal" generally goes somewhere reprehensible) in the first place?

And really, having "the ultimate goal" of any religion being a fancy Nintendo strikes me as rather profoundly puerile.

stephyjh · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2013, 02:50:17 pm »

Quote from: futureseek;129593

What especially interests me is what the ultimate goal of Paganism might be over the next ten thousand years. I assume that the goal is to somehow create a better life for everyone, but what might be some of the things included in a such a better life by ten thousand years from now?

It is possible that the ultimate goal might be somewhat different for different Pagan traditions, and my feeling is that that would be OK.

But then again, it might turn out that the ultimate goal might be the same for all Pagan traditions.

Jim

Forty-two.

yewberry · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2013, 05:27:19 pm »

Quote from: futureseek;129721

What I think I would like for myself, if I reincarnate on earth ten thousand years from now, would be to live in a village in the forest, natural and wild, with a few discretely hidden machines making food and other needs, and access to an archive with all music, movies, etc. that humanity had ever created. But many other people might want something different, so they would have what they want as well.

Sounds kinda like now. Unless you're talking Star Trek-ian food replicators, which obviously don't exist. I have friends who live in the woods, off the grid, and have an internet connection (a.k.a. "an archive of all music, movies, etc."). If only they'd stock up on canned goods instead of growing/hunting their own veggies and critters, your utopia would be a reality.

Also, what's "natural and wild" about hidden machines that make you lunch?

veggiewolf · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2013, 07:33:55 pm »

Quote from: yewberry;129793

...

Also, what's "natural and wild" about hidden machines that make you lunch?

That would be "Nothing", Jim!

Fireof9 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2013, 11:17:01 pm »

Quote from: triple_entendre;129666

...Fine. I'm waiting for King Arthur to come back and the Illuminati to stop training talentless pop stars. You happy now? :p

Name me one, just one that was talentless!

Sage · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2013, 11:45:00 pm »

Quote from: Fireof9;129863

Name me one, just one that was talentless!

I never meant to start a waaaaaaaaar
I just wanted you to let me innnnnnnn

I CAME IN LIKE A WREEEECKING BAAAAWL

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Author Topic: What might be ultimqte goal (Read 4053 times)

futureseek

What might be ultimqte goal

Sage

What might be ultimqte goal

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futureseek

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futureseek

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futureseek

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What might be ultimqte goal

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