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Author Topic: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea  (Read 4958 times)

Jujulinda

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Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« on: May 15, 2013, 11:26:08 am »
So, I've been studying off and on for 2 years or a little more. Roughly since I found this forum and made an account. I am completely lost.

I still feel a connection with something and I want to continue but I have no idea what direction to go in. I have a little altar representing the elements and I  have had a few things on the Solstice, Yule etc but I am not after Wicca. I am interested with working with a deity but at the same time I have a hard time reconciling the fact that their could be a deity. I don't want their to be and I'm not sure if anything is out there but I can feel something and I want their to be. Does that make sense?

I am interested in herbalism and kitchen witchery, folk magic (I actually listen to a lot of New World Witchery and love it) and very much the order of the natural world. I do related almost everything to Evolutionary Psychology and Biology. That's just how I think if it gives you any indicator. I am interested in Celtic lore and anything from the British Isles really. Something else that I'm interested in and don't know where to start is Slavic lore. I am half Russian and my family immigrated here in the 1910 or so. My grandma, who I never met, practiced a combination of "Old Country" magic and Catholicism. I have no idea where to start since I don't know that side of the family. Any Slavic specialists?

I'm not quite sure what this post is about, I guess, have any of you experienced people encountered this and what did you do? How did you start because I feel like a kid in a candy shop. I've read at least a dozen books or more since I started researching, all on different beliefs and I still come to nothing. Thanks for your advice in advance!

ecotopian

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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2013, 01:34:29 pm »
Quote from: Jujulinda;108690
So, I've been studying off and on for 2 years or a little more. Roughly since I found this forum and made an account. I am completely lost.

I still feel a connection with something and I want to continue but I have no idea what direction to go in. I have a little altar representing the elements and I  have had a few things on the Solstice, Yule etc but I am not after Wicca. I am interested with working with a deity but at the same time I have a hard time reconciling the fact that their could be a deity. I don't want their to be and I'm not sure if anything is out there but I can feel something and I want their to be. Does that make sense?


Not really.  I don't understand what you're trying to convey.  You want to work with a deity, but maybe not because they are a deity?  Is that it?

Quote
I'm not quite sure what this post is about, I guess, have any of you experienced people encountered this and what did you do? How did you start because I feel like a kid in a candy shop. I've read at least a dozen books or more since I started researching, all on different beliefs and I still come to nothing. Thanks for your advice in advance!


I sorta felt that way when I was still a Christian.  I felt myself become unmoored from it and started to drift.  It is only recently I found the Hellenic current.  It's still early days with me on this new voyage and I'm still feeling my way, too.  I have to remind myself that I have my entire life to figure this out and there may be times when I start to drift again.  Maybe there will be a rudder I can use by then.  We'll see.  

If you feel like a kid in a candy store, leave the store for a while.  This might sound harsh, but sometimes walking away can help you gain a different perspective and help you find what you're looking for.

Jujulinda

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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2013, 01:44:26 pm »
Quote from: ecotopian;108697
Not really.  I don't understand what you're trying to convey.  You want to work with a deity, but maybe not because they are a deity?  Is that it?



I sorta felt that way when I was still a Christian.  I felt myself become unmoored from it and started to drift.  It is only recently I found the Hellenic current.  It's still early days with me on this new voyage and I'm still feeling my way, too.  I have to remind myself that I have my entire life to figure this out and there may be times when I start to drift again.  Maybe there will be a rudder I can use by then.  We'll see.  

If you feel like a kid in a candy store, leave the store for a while.  This might sound harsh, but sometimes walking away can help you gain a different perspective and help you find what you're looking for.

Ok, for all intensive purposes I'm an atheist. I think that there couldn't be anything but at the same time, I don't rule it out. I know that's technically agnostic but I lean way more atheist. At the same time I feel like there's something out there. Something I'm missing. I don't want it to be there but I can feel it and I want to explore it.

I have left the store. For the last 6 months and I want to go shopping again(I read little bits here and there but never did anything or thought much about it). Lol. I do want to keep going. I think I feel very lost because I was so used to the community my church gave me when I was younger but I had the same problem there as I have here. I feel lost and like there is something but I can't touch it and never will. It's like my higher brain function blocks it out and wont' let it through because of how I grew up and the "God is going to send you to hell and the demons will eat you etc". I don't miss the church, I miss the community. I have been occasionally going to a UU service on sundays but I'm not quite sure of that place yet. I'll have to give a few more gos.

I guess what I mean is how the hell did you find your path? Did it click when you were reading something? Did you try something and something cool happened? That's what it seems like happens for most.

I know that it's vague and I'm sorry. I'll try to explain better if it still doesn't make sense.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 01:47:35 pm by Jujulinda »

KayeMacArthur

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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2013, 02:59:57 pm »
Quote from: Jujulinda;108698
I know that it's vague and I'm sorry. I'll try to explain better if it still doesn't make sense.

 
Just using a quote to get started.

Anyway, I've been at this "officially" since 2006 and I'm still mucking about, so don't get too discouraged. There's a lot of information out there and we can only read so much at one time.

Luckily, though, you say you have some interests in the British Isles and Celtic mythologies, as well as Slavic myth. Have you been pursuing those interests? Been reading on them or talking to your fellow Celtic-inspired folks, British folklorists, and Slavic students? If not, perhaps poke in that direction and see what bites back.

In terms of deity, reconciling the spiritual and "rational" parts of the mind is hard. I have difficulty with it every day. If you want to believe, then begin to believe. Perhaps work out, for yourself, how deities and/or divine powers can exist according to how you see the world. If you really don't want to believe, don't push it. If you feel more ready, you can always put the sign on the door (metaphorically speaking) that you're taking callers and see who comes knocking.

Religion is hard for a lot of folks; spirituality is, too. Write out what you believe in - cosmologically, theologically, etc. - and how you find the Universe to work. Do you believe in Fate? How do you imagine that? What do you define as divine? (Even if you reject it, you should have some sense of what it is to do so.) Are there any particular myths that appeal to you that you've read? Why do they appeal to you?

There's a lot that goes into it but these questions might help you get started finding your own answers and what you're looking for. Good luck.
Kaye | Pagan | Witch | Folklore Fiend
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Jujulinda

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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2013, 03:56:49 pm »
Quote from: KayeMacArthur;108701
Just using a quote to get started.

Anyway, I've been at this "officially" since 2006 and I'm still mucking about, so don't get too discouraged. There's a lot of information out there and we can only read so much at one time.

Luckily, though, you say you have some interests in the British Isles and Celtic mythologies, as well as Slavic myth. Have you been pursuing those interests? Been reading on them or talking to your fellow Celtic-inspired folks, British folklorists, and Slavic students? If not, perhaps poke in that direction and see what bites back.

In terms of deity, reconciling the spiritual and "rational" parts of the mind is hard. I have difficulty with it every day. If you want to believe, then begin to believe. Perhaps work out, for yourself, how deities and/or divine powers can exist according to how you see the world. If you really don't want to believe, don't push it. If you feel more ready, you can always put the sign on the door (metaphorically speaking) that you're taking callers and see who comes knocking.

Religion is hard for a lot of folks; spirituality is, too. Write out what you believe in - cosmologically, theologically, etc. - and how you find the Universe to work. Do you believe in Fate? How do you imagine that? What do you define as divine? (Even if you reject it, you should have some sense of what it is to do so.) Are there any particular myths that appeal to you that you've read? Why do they appeal to you?

There's a lot that goes into it but these questions might help you get started finding your own answers and what you're looking for. Good luck.

 
Thank you. Actually that is a help. When I first started on this forum, at the old forum before it moved ot here a few months later, I started talking to a girl somewhere over there (I can't remember what country she said) and she was talking to me about Slavic folklore and the like. Then she just dropped off. I haven't seen anybody since, unless anyone wants to speak up?

I am not trying to push it and I don't want to push it. I just feel like I'm dangling in limbo. I haven't delved into Celtic things because of the sheer mass of it and the amount of people who are involved. It's a bit overwhelming.

A thing that I have studied to a good extent is Spider Grandmother. I have Cherokee in me as well and that is actually a huge part of my history that I feel connected to. I know that spiders are connected to the alphabet, the start of the universe, web of life, infinity etc. My number is 8 and I'm a writer, I've always been drawn to spiders. I fear them and love them at the same time and avoid killing them. Maybe that's a path I should research? A few books I have is The Ways of My Grandmothers, Women Who Run With Wolves and Black Elk speaks. All of them are really amazing and I want to delve deeper in that.

I think I have an issue looking at things right in front of my nose. Thank you for pointing some things out.

I just don't know what resources are legit and where I should go. I do a google search and just go "Oh, god." Thanks for your response and to who else responds. Sorry if I sound whiny.

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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2013, 04:30:25 pm »
You said you're looking to connect with your heritage and you mentioned that it was Cherokee, so I thought I should point out some things about the books you listed, in the event you decide to look for things more specific to the Cherokee.

Quote from: Jujulinda;108711
The Ways of My Grandmothers,


This certainly looks like an interesting book (especially if it includes stories that are no longer told and photographs [or so I'm gathering from reviews]!), but the woman who is telling the story is Blackfoot, not Cherokee. So all of the culture and stories are going to be specific to that tribe.

Quote
Women Who Run With Wolves and


It looks like this book plays highly on archetypes and spiritual interpretation of a relationship between women and wolves, so I won't really comment on that. I'm not entirely sure what it has to do with Cherokee or Native people, but I'd recommend that if you come across any stories or information told in this book about about Cherokee people that you should fact check it with outside sources.

Quote
Black Elk speaks.


Black Elk Speaks is a very interesting book about the Ghost Dance movement of the early 1900's and it's a pretty important piece of history in the emerging pan-Indian movement and resurgence of religion, resistance, and sovereignty. However, the mythology and symbols in the book are from the Oglala Sioux, not Cherokee.
 
Oh, and in the event that you run into hearing about it: the "Two Wolves" story commonly attributed to Cherokee people is absolutely bogus. :) It's a great story with an interesting lesson, but not really a Native story (as we know it now) at all. And actually, here is a really awesome post talking about critical thinking when it comes to reconnecting and how false stories can harm Native cultures.

Good luck!
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Jujulinda

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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2013, 04:52:01 pm »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;108717
You said you're looking to connect with your heritage and you mentioned that it was Cherokee, so I thought I should point out some things about the books you listed, in the event you decide to look for things more specific to the Cherokee.

 

Thank you for your input! I know they're not Cherokee but an interesting read none the less. I wouldn't feel comfortable practicing anything from other tribes since my blood isn't of theirs but it's cool to see the similarities and the differences between the native tribes.

Thank you for that article! I wish my grandmother were still alive. She knew quite a bit and was a good portion Cherokee. I'm not sure how much I am. Something like 5 percent I believe. She had enough to get the grants and stuff for college, I know that. I just don't look it, except for my high cheek bones. I haven't ever really seen too many Cherokee books around. I live in an area where they were heavily at, so I'm kinda confused about that. There is a book about my, I believe 3 or 4 greats back, grandfather. I have read it but it doesn't go into beliefs or anything. It just talks about my family's history and its tie to Missouri and the Ozarks. Really cool book but not helpful.

I do have a hard time finding legit Native things. Like you said and the article said, there's a lot of misinformation and bullcrap going around. If anyone could point me to a book or two...that would be cool.

KayeMacArthur

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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2013, 05:04:34 pm »
Quote from: Jujulinda;108711
Thank you. Actually that is a help. When I first started on this forum, at the old forum before it moved ot here a few months later, I started talking to a girl somewhere over there (I can't remember what country she said) and she was talking to me about Slavic folklore and the like. Then she just dropped off. I haven't seen anybody since, unless anyone wants to speak up?

I am not trying to push it and I don't want to push it. I just feel like I'm dangling in limbo. I haven't delved into Celtic things because of the sheer mass of it and the amount of people who are involved. It's a bit overwhelming.

A thing that I have studied to a good extent is Spider Grandmother. I have Cherokee in me as well and that is actually a huge part of my history that I feel connected to. I know that spiders are connected to the alphabet, the start of the universe, web of life, infinity etc. My number is 8 and I'm a writer, I've always been drawn to spiders. I fear them and love them at the same time and avoid killing them. Maybe that's a path I should research? A few books I have is The Ways of My Grandmothers, Women Who Run With Wolves and Black Elk speaks. All of them are really amazing and I want to delve deeper in that.

I think I have an issue looking at things right in front of my nose. Thank you for pointing some things out.

I just don't know what resources are legit and where I should go. I do a google search and just go "Oh, god." Thanks for your response and to who else responds. Sorry if I sound whiny.

 
Nah, not whiny at all. It's confusing sometimes, religion and spirituality, but worth it if it's what you really want.

As for the Cherokee interest, you may want to reach out to members of the tribe. They'll be able to help you more than any book and you'll be able to learn in good conscience. There's a lot of issues with appropriating Native American cultures even today and the tribes don't always like it. But if you make an effort to reach out to them, you might find yourself lucking out.

However, for the Celtic mythology, it's VERY CONFUSING YES. I've been putting off reading The Mabinogian for over two years now just because the names intimidate me. I know I have to get around to it eventually, but for now I just need a bit of time. There are, however, smaller chunks that you can read concerning Celtic mythology that will help you start to get a good grasp on what they're going on about. If you need to keep track, do so! Taking notes while you read, especially for a religious or spiritual context, makes tracking down details later infinitely more easy. I've been working on my own notes a lot lately and it's still a pain to track down information that I half-remember from when I was first starting out. Keeping track as you pursue a more in-depth study will help you immensely. It's kind of like a workbook, when you look at it like that. Or a Book of Shadows, if that's the terminology you prefer.

I might have a few resources I can point you to regarding Slavic lore, but it will take a bit to track them down. I'll see what I can find and get back to you about that.

As for pushing or being pushed, if you don't want it, stand still, to bend a metaphor or two. Close the door, say you're not accepting visitors, and proceed to pursue other aspects of life and religious belief. Gods aren't the end-all, be-all of religion, thankfully. People tend to forget that a lot of times, though.
Kaye | Pagan | Witch | Folklore Fiend
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Jujulinda

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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2013, 05:08:35 pm »
Quote from: KayeMacArthur;108721
Nah, not whiny at all. It's confusing sometimes, religion and spirituality, but worth it if it's what you really want.

As for pushing or being pushed, if you don't want it, stand still, to bend a metaphor or two. Close the door, say you're not accepting visitors, and proceed to pursue other aspects of life and religious belief. Gods aren't the end-all, be-all of religion, thankfully. People tend to forget that a lot of times, though.

 
If you can't find it, I understand but thank you.
I know gods aren't but it is something that intrigues me. It may not be for me in the end but I definitely want to try, when I'm ready.  :)

KayeMacArthur

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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2013, 05:18:12 pm »
Quote from: Jujulinda;108724
If you can't find it, I understand but thank you.
I know gods aren't but it is something that intrigues me. It may not be for me in the end but I definitely want to try, when I'm ready.  :)

 
It's the when you're ready part that matters most here, I think. Good luck. :)
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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2013, 05:23:42 pm »
Quote from: Jujulinda;108698
I guess what I mean is how the hell did you find your path? Did it click when you were reading something? Did you try something and something cool happened? That's what it seems like happens for most.

 
If you're not on your path, where are you?

Most people's paths in life go through periods where they have no clue what the heck they're doing.  Sometimes that's religious, sometimes that's educational, sometimes it's job-related, or relationship-related, or something else.  But that doesn't mean they're not on their path.  There is nowhere else they can be.  The more you look outside of yourself for yourself, the longer it will take for you to get out of the woods, though.

Look at yourself.  What matters to you?  What do you value?  What are your ethics?  What is your sense of relationship to the universe?  Where do these things lead you, when you explore them?

It may be that exploring the real actual stuff that has a relationship to where you are right now will put you in a place where you have an experience, or an insight, or come across something that hits your sweet spot, or whatever else that follows on from there.  But the odds of something being meaningful to where you are right now without you actually doing the work to get there from here are pretty low.  So start where you are, and go from there.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2013, 05:32:33 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;108729

Most people's paths in life go through periods where they have no clue what the heck they're doing.


OMGS, this, this and... this!
Amen.
\'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation.
That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance.
You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long.
All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.\'
Terry Pratchett \'Lords and Ladies\'

Confuzzled and proud. :p

Jujulinda

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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2013, 05:44:41 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;108729
If you're not on your path, where are you?

Most people's paths in life go through periods where they have no clue what the heck they're doing.  Sometimes that's religious, sometimes that's educational, sometimes it's job-related, or relationship-related, or something else.  But that doesn't mean they're not on their path.  There is nowhere else they can be.  The more you look outside of yourself for yourself, the longer it will take for you to get out of the woods, though.

Look at yourself.  What matters to you?  What do you value?  What are your ethics?  What is your sense of relationship to the universe?  Where do these things lead you, when you explore them?

It may be that exploring the real actual stuff that has a relationship to where you are right now will put you in a place where you have an experience, or an insight, or come across something that hits your sweet spot, or whatever else that follows on from there.  But the odds of something being meaningful to where you are right now without you actually doing the work to get there from here are pretty low.  So start where you are, and go from there.

 
Wow. Your response really struck a chord with me. I don't think I have ever sat down and thought that over. I have in a vague, sort it in my mind way. Never on paper, where I could mull it over and really think about it. You're right though. I think part of my problem is I struggle with clinical depression and it makes getting anywhere a trek through snow in the woods at midnight. So, looking at others fulfilled makes me want it now. I feel like I'm lacking I guess because I don't have a belief system. The looks I get when I say I'm atheist are terrible, especially around here.

I do meditate, or I used to. I did for many years but haven't in about a year or so. I think I will take your advice and write all that down, over a period of time and see where it leads me. Thank you.

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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2013, 06:20:38 pm »
Quote from: Jujulinda;108733
I think I will take your advice and write all that down, over a period of time and see where it leads me. Thank you.

 
Don't just write things down - explore things, build an understanding of stuff that matters to you.  I mean, I got to where I am through a course where the critical feature was reading a book on tattooing as a sacred devotional act, because I was interested in religious tattooing.

Where you are matters.  You have to go from where you are to wherever you wind up.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Jujulinda

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Re: Studying for 2 years and still lost at sea
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2013, 06:23:31 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;108739
Don't just write things down - explore things, build an understanding of stuff that matters to you.  I mean, I got to where I am through a course where the critical feature was reading a book on tattooing as a sacred devotional act, because I was interested in religious tattooing.

Where you are matters.  You have to go from where you are to wherever you wind up.

 
Good advice. But I do have a question, what was the book? I have an interest in all things tattoo related and would love to read it.

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