All Pagans Should Celebrate the Wheel of the Year Regardless of specific Religion?

[RandallS]

Long time members of TC known that any discussion of "Pagan Unity" can quickly become a major thread with a lot of "hostility" here, so I am sort of reluctant to bring this up here, but the idea is at least interesting (note: "interesting" does not necessarily mean "good").

I received feedback on our web site asking me why we do not stress the Wheel of the Year more as while the wheel is a property of Wicca and Wicca-like religions more than Pagan religions in general, the public tends so associate the Wheel of the Year with Paganism. The author of this note believes that all Pagans should celebrate the eight Wheel holidays in some way even if they are not a part of their specific Pagan path -- just as many Christians celebrate secular cultural holidays like Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, etc. religiously even though they are not truly holy days in Christianity. Doing so would give Pagans more of a common culture and would be more visible to the general public than each group only doing their religion's own thing.



What you you think?

I'm very skeptical, but I figured it would make a good discussion.

[stephyjh]

Long time members of TC known that any discussion of "Pagan Unity" can quickly become a major thread with a lot of "hostility" here, so I am sort of reluctant to bring this up here, but the idea is at least interesting (note: "interesting" does not necessarily mean "good").

I received feedback on our web site asking me why we do not stress the Wheel of the Year more as while the wheel is a property of Wicca and Wicca-like religions more than Pagan religions in general, the public tends so associate the Wheel of the Year with Paganism. The author of this note believes that all Pagans should celebrate the eight Wheel holidays in some way even if they are not a part of their specific Pagan path -- just as many Christians celebrate secular cultural holidays like Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, etc. religiously even though they are not truly holy days in Christianity. Doing so would give Pagans more of a common culture and would be more visible to the general public than each group only doing their religion's own thing.

What you you think?

I'm very skeptical, but I figured it would make a good discussion.

I'm pretty skeptical of the idea myself. I don't know that the "other" category really needs to have a common culture.

[Carnelian]

I don't know that the "other" category really needs to have a common culture.

I agree, it seems pretty unnecessary.

[Sharysa]

I received feedback on our web site asking me why we do not stress the Wheel of the Year more as while the wheel is a property of Wicca and Wicca-like religions more than Pagan religions in general, the public tends so associate the Wheel of the Year with Paganism. The author of this note believes that all Pagans should celebrate the eight Wheel holidays in some way even if they are not a part of their specific Pagan path -- just as many Christians celebrate secular cultural holidays like Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, etc. religiously even though they are not truly holy days in Christianity. Doing so would give Pagans more of a common culture and would be more visible to the general public than each group only doing their religion's own thing.

What you you think?

I'm very skeptical, but I figured it would make a good discussion.

I think "giving pagans a common culture" would be missing the point of paganism. Yes, the drawback with paganism is that all the choices are hard to process and it's hard to explain briefly, but finally finding your path is generally regarded as worth all the hassle.

"Unifying" pagans even for a good cause (and I don't personally feel that "making it easier to explain to the public" qualifies) could run the risk of turning Wicca into the pagan counterpart of Christianity.

[Caroline]

Long time members of TC known that any discussion of "Pagan Unity" can quickly become a major thread with a lot of "hostility" here, so I am sort of reluctant to bring this up here, but the idea is at least interesting (note: "interesting" does not necessarily mean "good").

I received feedback on our web site asking me why we do not stress the Wheel of the Year more as while the wheel is a property of Wicca and Wicca-like religions more than Pagan religions in general, the public tends so associate the Wheel of the Year with Paganism. The author of this note believes that all Pagans should celebrate the eight Wheel holidays in some way even if they are not a part of their specific Pagan path -- just as many Christians celebrate secular cultural holidays like Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, etc. religiously even though they are not truly holy days in Christianity. Doing so would give Pagans more of a common culture and would be more visible to the general public than each group only doing their religion's own thing.

What you you think?

I'm very skeptical, but I figured it would make a good discussion.

I think it can be a useful framing mechanism for those who wish to come together in some sort of general community effort or expression. I've gone to various functions where the events held are not necessarily "mine" neither are they inherently offensive. I can celebrate the seasons, say, should I feel the urge for a community experience, but reserve more specific or intimate celebrations to a more appropriate or private event.

"Commonalities" often aren't, imo. At least not once you look below surface appearances.

I'm also completely unconvinced that there is a pressing need for all pagans to *want* or need to support a public visibility.

[Darkhawk]

The author of this note believes that all Pagans should celebrate the eight Wheel holidays in some way even if they are not a part of their specific Pagan path -- just as many Christians celebrate secular cultural holidays like Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, etc. religiously even though they are not truly holy days in Christianity. Doing so would give Pagans more of a common culture and would be more visible to the general public than each group only doing their religion's own thing.

What you you think?

Makes about as much sense as suggesting that I should celebrate Christmas and Easter in order to properly conform to the common culture of the United States.

Even aside from the fact that that's obviously bullshit if you reframe it in terms of a different religious cultural hegemony, one of the biggest problems I run into in broader pagan culture is this sense that I don't exist. I once got screamed at and called a censoring asshole for pointing out that I had celebrated my religious new year when it actually falls, at the beginning of August, and thus that it was inappropriate to call Samhain "the pagan new year". (Today is actually my new year, though religious celebrations are slightly superceded by Stompy's birthday party.) Because simply existing in a non-Wiccan context is apparently as much of an attack on insecure neo-Wiccans as simply existing as a non-Christian is to seething fundie assholes.

I just have no patience for this "But but but the War On Yule" nonsense. Shove it where you want the nitwits to shove their bullshit "War On Christmas".

[Aine Rayne]

Long time members of TC known that any discussion of "Pagan Unity" can quickly become a major thread with a lot of "hostility" here, so I am sort of reluctant to bring this up here, but the idea is at least interesting (note: "interesting" does not necessarily mean "good").

I received feedback on our web site asking me why we do not stress the Wheel of the Year more as while the wheel is a property of Wicca and Wicca-like religions more than Pagan religions in general, the public tends so associate the Wheel of the Year with Paganism. The author of this note believes that all Pagans should celebrate the eight Wheel holidays in some way even if they are not a part of their specific Pagan path -- just as many Christians celebrate secular cultural holidays like Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, etc. religiously even though they are not truly holy days in Christianity. Doing so would give Pagans more of a common culture and would be more visible to the general public than each group only doing their religion's own thing.

What you you think?

I'm very skeptical, but I figured it would make a good discussion.

I'm with everyone else here is saying that it's an unnecessary idea at best. This sort of thinking, IMO, is like someone saying that everyone who is African-American should celebrate Kwanzaa in the spirit of being "unified". In other words, ridiculous and offensive. Not to mention I feel like for all pagans to celebrate the Wheel even if it's completely unrelated to their path would completely nullify the point of paganism as a whole. It's all about finding/creating your own path, why would it make sense to then nail everyone down with a construct that's only relevant to one set of paths and is nearly useless in others?

Just because the public associates it with paganism as a whole doesn't mean we have to accept it. The public associates Original Sin with all of Christianity and violent crime with the mentally ill, doesn't mean anyone in those groups needs to conform with that just to make everything "easier" to explain to the public. Personally I don't think any of us should care what the public says we as pagans should be doing. The whole point is to be the masters of our own spirituality and gives us license to ignore other pagans and especially the public at large who will assume whatever it wants even if we were to conform to this idea that all of us should follow the Wheel for the sake of continuity. I have to agree with Sharysa that conforming for continuity is not a good reason in any context.

[Melamphoros]

Makes about as much sense as suggesting that I should celebrate Christmas and Easter in order to properly conform to the common culture of the United States.

Even aside from the fact that that's obviously bullshit if you reframe it in terms of a different religious cultural hegemony, one of the biggest problems I run into in broader pagan culture is this sense that I don't exist. I once got screamed at and called a censoring asshole for pointing out that I had celebrated my religious new year when it actually falls, at the beginning of August, and thus that it was inappropriate to call Samhain "the pagan new year". (Today is actually my new year, though religious celebrations are slightly superceded by Stompy's birthday party.) Because simply existing in a non-Wiccan context is apparently as much of an attack on insecure neo-Wiccans as simply existing as a non-Christian is to seething fundie assholes.

I just have no patience for this "But but but the War On Yule" nonsense. Shove it where you want the nitwits to shove their bullshit "War On Christmas".

Instead of posting a long rant about how the Neo-Wiccans are trying to co-oped the term "pagan," I'm just going to say "What Darkhawk said."

[Aine Rayne]

Instead of posting a long rant about how the Neo-Wiccans are trying to co-oped the term "pagan," I'm just going to say "What Darkhawk said."

lol if there were like buttons, you'd get a like. Honestly, I've been a pagan for less than a year and I'm starting to feel like it would be easier for all of us if we dropped the term pagan and just claimed our paths. We'll still get the WTF look from the public, but at least we won't have the baggage of the term and the problem of fluffs trying to claim the term for themselves. Let them be pagans, I'll be Kemetic. Then there'll be less likelihood of "well why don't you celebrate the Wheel?" "Cuz I'm not Wiccan, I'm Kemetic." "Well what does that mean?" "It means Egypt never had the Wheel!" I've been lucky in never having had a conversation like that so far, but I know I'd be frustrated somethin fierce if I did.

[Elani Temperance]

What you you think?

Um... no.

When I was Neo-Wiccan and Eclectic, I celebrated the Wheel of Year because it was part of the mythology and practice that fitted my Tradition. Had I been Celtic Recon, I would still clebrate some of the Wheel of Year Festivals. But I'm not. I'm Hellenic. The Ancient Greeks knew three seasons, for starters, and although you can probably find a festival near to the Wheel of Year festival days, it would still not be celebrating the Wheel of year; I'd be recreating a Hellenic festival. The Wheel of Year festivals have, traditionally, absolutely no business being anywhere near my practice, even though Hellenismos falls under the Pagan banner.