Athame and their uses

[Wickerman]

It's interesting to me how many people do not know that many knives, daggers, swords, etc were actually blooded and named by their owners. Even that to many a pulled blade had to be blooded before being returned to its scabbard less it bite the hand that held it. Sort of the same notion of preventing a back bitter blade so that it never sought the blood of its welder nor could be used against them by another.

Sometimes the blood would be introduced as part of the creation process by the smith, especially if for a well known person. At times done by the person who would be buying it and providing thier own blood for the final blessign or sacrifice to the blood. Definitely not something you hear spoken of often today but still to be found in many areas, well at least as I discovered in northern Japan in my two tours there.

There is some as yet not fully understood effect of a blood temper on fine steel. Also urine seems to produce a similar effect. That according to Jim Hrisoulas, either in 'The Complete Bladesmith", or 'The Pattern Welded Blade'. He does debunk the practice of plunging the blade into a living creature however.

[Wickerman]

Base material wise i'll agree they are the same base mineral. Yet in the magical arena base iron is not the same as steel, probably one of the reasons you still see some spells that call for raw iron as it is part of a rock. I recall an old article that told the seeker to seek rocks that appeared to have rust in them as a sign of its iron content. I still recall how my grand-father taught me about Ferro-Magnesium influences of making rocks dark in color and to look for natural rust in the rock face.

Yes I'd agree from a magical perspective, but finding pure iron for a blade would be very difficult. By the time you smelt the iron bearing rocks you will have introduced carbon, and will have either wrought iron, at the low end or cast iron at the high end. Tool steel falls in the middle. Curiously I had a friend who ground a ritual blade from cast iron. The irony here is that had he used tool steel he would have been closer to pure iron, since cast iron has over 2% carbon, while tool steels have between .4 and .95 percent. Wrought iron is what you are looking for if you can find it, it has the lowest carbon content of all the low allow steels at around .08 %, next is malleable iron (found in iron electrical conduit fittings) at around .1 %.

[monsnoleedra]

There is some as yet not fully understood effect of a blood temper on fine steel. Also urine seems to produce a similar effect. That according to Jim Hrisoulas, either in 'The Complete Bladesmith", or 'The Pattern Welded Blade'. He does debunk the practice of plunging the blade into a living creature however.

There was a series of Sword and Sorcery Fantasy books some years ago called Sword Dancers. The practice involved the taking of the life of a greater swordsman, either willingly or unwillingly, and having their spirit and soul inhabit the blade and give it an awareness. The main trouble was that the new welder had to be stronger both mentaly and to a degree physically to fight the spirit and make the sword recognize him / her as the new master.

Sounds pretty strange yet I have heard whispers of stories where it was done in real life to give the sword a spirit and soul. Definitely not something that is part of the straight forward lore and mythology of edged weapons and those who used them. A few times in reference to the concept of "Blue Fire" used in the creation of a super sword.

[monsnoleedra]

Yes I'd agree from a magical perspective, but finding pure iron for a blade would be very difficult. By the time you smelt the iron bearing rocks you will have introduced carbon, and will have either wrought iron, at the low end or cast iron at the high end. Tool steel falls in the middle. Curiously I had a friend who ground a ritual blade from cast iron. The irony here is that had he used tool steel he would have been closer to pure iron, since cast iron has over 2% carbon, while tool steels have between .4 and .95 percent. Wrought iron is what you are looking for if you can find it, it has the lowest carbon content of all the low allow steels at around .08 %, next is malleable iron (found in iron electrical conduit fittings) at around .1 %.

I agree with the bolded part. I think that is in part why one only had to have a rock that contained iron though I could be wrong.

I sometimes wonder just how much actual though goes into the obtainment and reasoning for any bladed weapon when you consider the way most use an Athame.

[Wickerman]

I agree with the bolded part. I think that is in part why one only had to have a rock that contained iron though I could be wrong.

I sometimes wonder just how much actual though goes into the obtainment and reasoning for any bladed weapon when you consider the way most use an Athame.

It is very true, most people just pick up a blade that feels special to them. Personally my practice doesn't use an Atheme, I do use a killing knife, in both sacrificial work and regular butchering. It is a dedicated blade simply because it is double edged, and not of much use for other purposes, also I keep it extremely sharp, and using a knife for other purposes would require frequent sharpenings.

There are smiths, and I am one of them, that would make a knife, to someones specifications. I don't have a lot of time for such, so it would not be a speedy process. Certainly it is not something that I do professionally. For me forge work is a hobby, and I do way more tool making than knife making. I also don't do much pattern welded stuff. I think though that an iron blade, or something as close as possible to it would be doable. There are other folks on here that do metal work as well. If anyone is interested in discussing the possibility of a blade project, post in the group 'heavy metal' and see what the other metal workers think of it. This isn't an ad by the way, just a suggestion as to how the pagan community might help each other out.

[Micheál]

just wondering what exactly are all the uses of them are. rituals, and what else? can they be used in self defense and such?

It's a form of ritual knife specifically used in Wicca. There are numerous ritual knives&daggers, but the Athame is a specifically Wiccan one which becomes an Athame after it is concentrated from another one. It's a weapon which is used to command and control spirits, entities, fairies, e.t.c. all that good stuff. It being made of iron or steel is another reason why it is intimidating to them.

There are many traditions involving iron&steel protecting from different entities, and a black handled knife called a scian na coise duibhe is one that has been used in Irish folk traditions and witchcraft for quite a while.