Heathen Soul?

[Meritmut]

Here you go: http://www.jstor.org/stable/27532553?seq=1

Thank you This was very helpful.

[Meritmut]

Yeah, the soul question is a toughie.

What I'm starting off with is finding a tale involving shades of the soul concept that resonates with me (in this case Helgi the Hund-slayer) and just researching the crap out of it.

Maybe that'll be a good start for you?

Although I hate using Wikipedia, I found this on their article from Death in Norse Paganism, "There was also a "free soul" or "dream soul" that could only leave the body during moments of unconsciousness, ecstasy, trance and sleep. The conscious soul which comprised emotions and will was located in the body and it could only be released when the body was destroyed through decay or immolation. When the body had been broken down, the conscious soul could start its journey to the realm of the dead, possibly by using the free soul as an intermediary."

The source they are using for this is the book: Birka: The Burial Customs - A Study of the Graves on Bjorko by Anne-Sofie Graslund. Has anyone read this book or come across some information that expands on this topic?

[Juniperberry]

Although I hate using Wikipedia, I found this on their article from Death in Norse Paganism, "There was also a "free soul" or "dream soul" that could only leave the body during moments of unconsciousness, ecstasy, trance and sleep. The conscious soul which comprised emotions and will was located in the body and it could only be released when the body was destroyed through decay or immolation. When the body had been broken down, the conscious soul could start its journey to the realm of the dead, possibly by using the free soul as an intermediary."

The source they are using for this is the book: Birka: The Burial Customs - A Study of the Graves on Bjorko by Anne-Sofie Graslund. Has anyone read this book or come across some information that expands on this topic?

No, I haven't read that before. There did seem to be at least two stages of death- at least how the living viewed it. There were the recently remembered dead and then, after several generations and forgotten, the dead were possibly known then as wights or alfar. Not quite the same as what you're talking about.

As for trance and such, I've heard it called the hug but instead of being soul-like, it was more how we'd few consciousness.

Is there a specific reason you're interested in the soul? It might be easier to start there.

[Meritmut]

No, I haven't read that before. There did seem to be at least two stages of death- at least how the living viewed it. There were the recently remembered dead and then, after several generations and forgotten, the dead were possibly known then as wights or alfar. Not quite the same as what you're talking about.

As for trance and such, I've heard it called the hug but instead of being soul-like, it was more how we'd few consciousness.

Is there a specific reason you're interested in the soul? It might be easier to start there.

I suppose because I am interested in the Afterlife in general. With all the religions have studied the afterlife is very interesting to see how different people view it.

[Juniperberry]

I suppose because I am interested in the Afterlife in general. With all the religions have studied the afterlife is very interesting to see how different people view it.

Makes sense. I was just wondering if there was something specific on your mind that made you want some answers.

I'm fascinated by death, myself. I've had some experiences that convinced me that there is an afterlife and a supernatural reality, so I tend to read a lot about it.

Something I've been dwelling on tonight is how simple death was to the pre-christian heathens. Brynhild just throws herself on Siegfried's pyre, along with several dozen other examples of people just readily dying for a cause, honor, love. It was a time when human sacrifice was accepted, and blood payments were a norm, and suicide honorable. There wasn't much reservation or concern about extinguishing your own life.

What sort of mindset and worldview does that come from? We have so many questions in our present day about the continuation of the soul and heaven and our earthly obligations that they just didn't seem to have. Its almost as if there wasn't that much of a separation between life and death, like it was just a door one stepped through into a new room. And of course they had a strong belief in the supernatural and their ancestors and the continued interaction between the dead and the living
..but it wasn't just based on faith or hope, it was a reality. Taken for granted almost as much as breathing.

Anyway. There are several different technical explanations as to what happens to the soul at burial, how and where the soul travels, or even what type of corpse disposal is best, that I think it would be hard to nail down one unifying explanation for all of heathendom.

[Meritmut]

Makes sense. I was just wondering if there was something specific on your mind that made you want some answers.

I'm fascinated by death, myself. I've had some experiences that convinced me that there is an afterlife and a supernatural reality, so I tend to read a lot about it.

Something I've been dwelling on tonight is how simple death was to the pre-christian heathens. Brynhild just throws herself on Siegfried's pyre, along with several dozen other examples of people just readily dying for a cause, honor, love. It was a time when human sacrifice was accepted, and blood payments were a norm, and suicide honorable. There wasn't much reservation or concern about extinguishing your own life.

What sort of mindset and worldview does that come from? We have so many questions in our present day about the continuation of the soul and heaven and our earthly obligations that they just didn't seem to have. Its almost as if there wasn't that much of a separation between life and death, like it was just a door one stepped through into a new room. And of course they had a strong belief in the supernatural and their ancestors and the continued interaction between the dead and the living
..but it wasn't just based on faith or hope, it was a reality. Taken for granted almost as much as breathing.

Anyway. There are several different technical explanations as to what happens to the soul at burial, how and where the soul travels, or even what type of corpse disposal is best, that I think it would be hard to nail down one unifying explanation for all of heathendom.

I agree, especially with your analogy of death being like walking into another room. I am also fascinated by the afterlife, I have been since I first started looking into polytheism eight years ago. For me I think the afterlife concept in Heathenism that resonates the most with me is the Holy mountain or the more generalized belief of dying and then dwelling with your ancestors.

[Juniperberry]

I agree, especially with your analogy of death being like walking into another room. I am also fascinated by the afterlife, I have been since I first started looking into polytheism eight years ago. For me I think the afterlife concept in Heathenism that resonates the most with me is the Holy mountain or the more generalized belief of dying and then dwelling with your ancestors.

The King in the Mountain is still part of local legend. I too find it very cool.

I wrote a blog post recently about how I view the dead. Maybe it'll spark some ideas for you?

[Meritmut]

The King in the Mountain is still part of local legend. I too find it very cool.

I wrote a blog post recently about how I view the dead. Maybe it'll spark some ideas for you?

Thank you for the link Oh I love reading blogs ^-^ I look forward to it and hopefully it will help spark my own concepts

[Meritmut]

The King in the Mountain is still part of local legend. I too find it very cool.

I wrote a blog post recently about how I view the dead. Maybe it'll spark some ideas for you?

http://www3.gettysburg.edu/~cfee/Med...fell/text.html

This was a very interesting article to me. I was particularly interested in the comments on Thor and his tie to the Afterlife. The article mentions how devotees of his cult would pass onto the Afterlife into a sacred hill or mountain. It also mentions Thor's hammer being inscribed onto urns. This belief of dying into hills made me think about the concept in Celtic beliefs of the ancestors being Sidhe and dying into the hills.

[Juniperberry]

http://www3.gettysburg.edu/~cfee/Med...fell/text.html

This was a very interesting article to me. I was particularly interested in the comments on Thor and his tie to the Afterlife. The article mentions how devotees of his cult would pass onto the Afterlife into a sacred hill or mountain. It also mentions Thor's hammer being inscribed onto urns. This belief of dying into hills made me think about the concept in Celtic beliefs of the ancestors being Sidhe and dying into the hills.

Thanks for the link. Its interesting that later on the holy hill was seen as specifically connected to Thor. Though grave mounds were connected to Freyr in Sweden. And it was Hulda that lived in a mountain with her retinue of deceased children in Germany. I mean, its definitely a major part of folk belief, and I suppose who reigns over it is a matter of who the person worships?