I have some questions relating to Asatru...

[Juniperberry]

No, I prefer that you not infer, by the use of those quotes, that the idea that Asatru is not religion is somehow the default condition. I understand that some modern heathens have moved in that direction - and thus I would not assert that heathenry is necessarily religion - but Asatru was founded as and still functions as a working religion for a number of people.

This is still bothering me. Its one of those issues where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If I had just said religion, then someone could have jumped in with the other side of the argument.

The gothi of the group you linked to did an article awhile back and was asked if Asatru was a religion. And she didn't want to answer because she would be misunderstood. I completely sympathize.

I used "religion" because it's the word we have to describe the traditions today, but it isn't adequate enough. It isn't adequate for the reasons stated in my quote earlier, and for various other reasons.

This shouldn't be an insult to Asatru but a compliment to its diversity, depth, and broad affect on our personal worlds. It isn't meant to invalidate Asatru, but to enhance the freedoms and value within it.

[cigfran]

This is still bothering me. Its one of those issues where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If I had just said religion, then someone could have jumped in with the other side of the argument.

The gothi of the group you linked to did an article awhile back and was asked if Asatru was a religion. And she didn't want to answer because she would be misunderstood. I completely sympathize.

I used "religion" because it's the word we have to describe the traditions today, but it isn't adequate enough. It isn't adequate for the reasons stated in my quote earlier, and for various other reasons.

This shouldn't be an insult to Asatru but a compliment to its diversity, depth, and broad affect on our personal worlds. It isn't meant to invalidate Asatru, but to enhance the freedoms and value within it.

I apologize for upsetting you.

Here's a brief version of my own thinking:

I know that many ancient peoples didn't think about religion the way we do, in formal terms. Heathenry is far from alone in being "the way we are and what we do."

I think if gods and rituals are a significant part of how you relate to the numinous, you have religion.

I'm not recon. I can't be, in my circumstances. On the other hand, I have a strong philosophical and metaphysical bent. That's what's important to me.

Many modern branches of paganism have a tension - not always negative - between religious and non-religious perspectives and practice. Referring to either with scare quotes, as if it were somehow questionable, feels wrong.

[Juniperberry]

I apologize for upsetting you.

I upset myself by not speaking my mind. No need for you to apologize.



Here's a brief version of my own thinking:

I know that many ancient peoples didn't think about religion the way we do, in formal terms. Heathenry is far from alone in being "the way we are and what we do."

Yes. I consider risking the comparison to Judaism, which is also more than just a religion, but I know some people would get up in arms about that being an unbroken tradition incomparable to heathenry.

I think if gods and rituals are a significant part of how you relate to the numinous, you have religion.

I'm not recon. I can't be, in my circumstances. On the other hand, I have a strong philosophical and metaphysical bent. That's what's important to me.

I didn't consider this a case of reconstruction. I think many pagan based faiths would find this religion/more than religion discussion applicable.

Many modern branches of paganism have a tension - not always negative - between religious and non-religious perspectives and practice. Referring to either with scare quotes, as if it were somehow questionable, feels wrong.

The scare quotes were meant to signify that there are caveats applied to this use of religion, not that it was questionable if asatru was a religion. As I said, some consider it a religion, some don't. It isn't organized, even though my mention of something being inherent to it or not might imply that there is, but rather its a patchwork quilt. Religion just has so much baggage, it felt safer to use scare quotes... in an attempt to avoid this exact situation, ironically.