Tim Tebow & public displays of piety

[Melamphoros]

I try to actively avoid knowing anything about professional sports and up until a few months ago I had no idea what a Tebow was. Alas, I weep for my innocence.

I didn't know what a Tebow was until a few hours ago when I first read this thread. If you think that's bad, I didn't know (or more likely, remember) who fought in this year's Super Bowl until someone mentioned it in this thread. I don't know who won, but it doesn't really matter to me.

*reads last paragraph*



Is it strange that I take pride in things that probably alienate me from society at large?

Also, chances are good the folks on the opposing team are also praying to God for victory so what exactly is the point here? Do the prayers cancel each other out? Do you honestly believe that like, your prayers are better than the other peoples' prayers and that's why you win? What is the objective here? Seriously can someone explain it to me because I have tried to understand why SportsPrayer happens and I just cannot wrap my head about it.

I distinctly remember a sitcom (I want to say it was Third Rock From The Sun) where this was poked fun of.

[MadZealot]

I think the jist of it was something like he ought to be selling the faith with his deeds, not his words. And I don't think winning at sports really counts as good deeds.

Funny, I think Jesus said the same thing. "Faith without works is dead." "Show me faith without works, and I'll show you faith through works." nuff said.

Why are you praying to God to help you win a football game when there are a lot more important things you could be praying to God for? Also, chances are good the folks on the opposing team are also praying to God for victory so what exactly is the point here? Do the prayers cancel each other out?

Interesting theological conundrum, innit? It's like the Crusades, but with beer ads.
Personally, I don't think the Creator of the unverse gives one metric shit about football, any more than S/He/It does about music or movies. Think of the typical grammy-type show, where the winning artist wants to thank Gaaaawd for his success. I get an old-man-in-the-sky image in my head, the Creator thinking 'oh, Me, please... don't thank me for that, that song's utter crap...."

[sailor]

Basically, Tebow kneels and salutes the sky every time his team makes a good play, a touchdown or wins the game. He's got a cult following in the colleges and such now and the students are "Tebowing" and getting not only reprimanded for it, but suspended in certain cases.

Fact of the matter is, the NFL wouldn't tolerate it from any other religion, I don't know why they're making such an exception for him. Plus, NFL players get fined every bloody day for excessive celebrations in the end zones. They need to start doing that to Tebow because that's what it is.

Do you have a citation for students getting suspended for Tebowing on religious grounds? If so, that is one school district that is about to go broke. Students do not lose their 1st amendment rights at the school door. Now, I"ve heard of students getting punished for blocking hallways or disrupting classes for the physical action time & place of Tebowing.

Tebow's celebration apparently falls within the guidelines of the NFL. He kneels and whatever in a very short time. Or are you proposing that the NFL have a special rule against religious expression? If so, the NFL will go broke paying him for civil rights violations.

[MadZealot]

Do you have a citation for students getting suspended for Tebowing on religious grounds? If so, that is one school district that is about to go broke. Students do not lose their 1st amendment rights at the school door.

No citations here, but I've seen at least one article. Seriously, I had to google 'tebowing.'
Problem is, who's gonna bring suit? The kids' parents on their own might not have the money to see it through, and a group like the ACLU might or might not have the balls to do its job.

[Asch]

Do you have a citation for students getting suspended for Tebowing on religious grounds? If so, that is one school district that is about to go broke. Students do not lose their 1st amendment rights at the school door. Now, I"ve heard of students getting punished for blocking hallways or disrupting classes for the physical action time & place of Tebowing.

Tebow's celebration apparently falls within the guidelines of the NFL. He kneels and whatever in a very short time. Or are you proposing that the NFL have a special rule against religious expression? If so, the NFL will go broke paying him for civil rights violations.

Banning it solely because it is religious would be problematic, however banning it based on the ridiculous amount of media coverage it's receving and its defacto distracting nature because of it might be feasible

[Nachtigall]

Am I overreacting? Is he worthy of scorn? Or are his public pieties harmless? Or maybe his devotion to his beliefs should even be applauded? What's your take?

Frankly, yes. I don't know who Tim Tebow is, and I can judge only by the articles cited in this thread - but yes, if the fact that someone thanks their god for their accomplishments on public bothers you, and you consider it "enforcing religious hegemony", in my opinion you are overreacting.

[Nachtigall]

Interesting theological conundrum, innit? It's like the Crusades, but with beer ads.
Personally, I don't think the Creator of the unverse gives one metric shit about football, any more than S/He/It does about music or movies. Think of the typical grammy-type show, where the winning artist wants to thank Gaaaawd for his success. I get an old-man-in-the-sky image in my head, the Creator thinking 'oh, Me, please... don't thank me for that, that song's utter crap...."

I'm not necessarily disagreed with you, but one encounters this type of thinking in Pagan community all the time. "Deity X helped me find a boyfriend", "deity Y helped me get the job I wanted", "deity Z helped me with my psychological issues", etc. How is it different from "Jesus helped me get the music award"?

[HeartShadow]

I'm not necessarily disagreed with you, but one encounters this type of thinking in Pagan community all the time. "Deity X helped me find a boyfriend", "deity Y helped me get the job I wanted", "deity Z helped me with my psychological issues", etc. How is it different from "Jesus helped me get the music award"?

I think there's also a difference between *God X helped me with problem Y* and *Jesus is my best bud and makes everything shiiiiiiny!* And we tend to hear much more of the second one. (Buddy Jesus, anyone?)

And as far as I'm concerned, they're not displaying piety - they're diminishing their god. "I'm soooo important God cares that I got a touchdown! go God!" .. REALLY? REALLY? God is some old guy on a recliner watching football? Probably with a beer and pretzels? REALLY?

It's not illegal or anything, but GODS is it annoying as fuck!

[MadZealot]

I think there's also a difference between *God X helped me with problem Y* and *Jesus is my best bud and makes everything shiiiiiiny!* And we tend to hear much more of the second one. (Buddy Jesus, anyone?)

And as far as I'm concerned, they're not displaying piety - they're diminishing their god. "I'm soooo important God cares that I got a touchdown! go God!" .. REALLY? REALLY? God is some old guy on a recliner watching football? Probably with a beer and pretzels? REALLY?

It's not illegal or anything, but GODS is it annoying as fuck!

Yep. Pretty much this. While I was trying to compose a reply you beat me to it...

[Vermillion]

Do you have a citation for students getting suspended for Tebowing on religious grounds? If so, that is one school district that is about to go broke. Students do not lose their 1st amendment rights at the school door. Now, I"ve heard of students getting punished for blocking hallways or disrupting classes for the physical action time & place of Tebowing.

Tebow's celebration apparently falls within the guidelines of the NFL. He kneels and whatever in a very short time. Or are you proposing that the NFL have a special rule against religious expression? If so, the NFL will go broke paying him for civil rights violations.

I don't have any citations, right now, but I could do some digging. The events I've heard about happened back the end of November or so, just as the Tebow fever was ramping up and he was getting serious media attention.

Basically, students were gathering en masse and Tebowing out in the courtyard or something. They got reprimanded for it. I don't exactly agree with the suspensions (if those are true, you never know even when it's reported by news), but I definitely think that the religion in public places has gotten far, far out of control and Mr. Tebow hasn't done us any favors.