Surt - Cultic Activity in the Landnámabók?

[Lokabrenna]

I recently saw this assertion that Surt is given cult in the Landnámabók, so I thought to look it up myself, and came across this passage:

Thorvald Holbarki (= without a roof to his mouth) was the fourth son, he came one autumn to Thorvardstead to Smidkel and tarried there awhile; thence he went up to the cave of Surt and recited there a drapa which he had made on the giant in the cave.

Later, there is mention of someone named Surt:

Ketil was father of Asbjorn, the father of Thorstein, the father of Surt, the father of Sigvat the Speaker-at-law, the father of Kolbein.

Quotes from here: http://www.northvegr.org/sagas%20ann...mabok/020.html and http://www.northvegr.org/sagas%20ann...mabok/027.html



What's going on here? Is this guy worshiping the same Surt who is supposed to kill Freyr at Ragnarok? Another example of Christians making fun of Heathen beliefs? Did someone get a little mixed up while compiling the text?

[cigfran]

I recently saw this assertion that Surt is given cult in the Landnámabók, so I thought to look it up myself, and came across this passage:



Later, there is mention of someone named Surt:

Quotes from here: http://www.northvegr.org/sagas%20ann...mabok/020.html and http://www.northvegr.org/sagas%20ann...mabok/027.html

What's going on here? Is this guy worshiping the same Surt who is supposed to kill Freyr at Ragnarok? Another example of Christians making fun of Heathen beliefs? Did someone get a little mixed up while compiling the text?

Two things occur to me:

First, Surt is evidently a normal name or nickname. So any given Surt is not necessarily the same as the Big Bad Surtr.

Second, I don't think that cultic activity is necessarily the same as worship. A poem may have been an offering or charm to keep the giant in its cave and quiet.

[Lokabrenna]

First, Surt is evidently a normal name or nickname. So any given Surt is not necessarily the same as the Big Bad Surtr.

That's what I meant, it's kind of an odd name to give your kid (unless the kid was a big troublemaker). Then again, maybe he was a redhead, or something....

Second, I don't think that cultic activity is necessarily the same as worship. A poem may have been an offering or charm to keep the giant in its cave and quiet.

Yeah, the fact that the text says "on the giant" seems to imply that the poem has been inscribed on an effigy for some purpose.

[cigfran]

That's what I meant, it's kind of an odd name to give your kid (unless the kid was a big troublemaker). Then again, maybe he was a redhead, or something....

Well, according to Wikipedia Britannica, "Surt" is just "black" or "swarthy" in old Norse - so it must be the older version of svart. So perhaps the person in the second quote may have simply been dark-haired or -skinned.

Yeah, the fact that the text says "on the giant" seems to imply that the poem has been inscribed on an effigy for some purpose.

I think that's just an archaic usage, meaning the same thing as "for" or "about." Consider, for instance, the much more modern "Ode on a Grecian Urn."

[hlewagastir]

What's going on here? Is this guy worshiping the same Surt who is supposed to kill Freyr at Ragnarok? Another example of Christians making fun of Heathen beliefs? Did someone get a little mixed up while compiling the text?

Thorvald Holbarki (= without a roof to his mouth) was the fourth son, he came one autumn to Thorvardstead to Smidkel and tarried there awhile; thence he went up to the cave of Surt and recited there a drapa which he had made on the giant in the cave.

Surt seems to be associated with the underworld and its darkness (Surtr - "the black one") and also fire. This fits very well with Iceland due to the islands volcanic activity; spewing fire and lava which forms dark caves and bizarre landscapes out of dark, volcanic rock.
It´s not weird that this dark, firegiant would have a volcanic cave named after him ("Surtshellir").
If he was considered a god and/or worshiped (nothing in Thorvalds visit seems to indicate that IMO) one would expect that areas named after him would be considered sacred, or of a certain holyness, like we see with other places named after gods or dedicated to them.
Both Landnámabók (13th century) and Hardar Saga (14th century) mention Surtshellir as a base of outlaw acticity in the 10th century, and archaeological finds support that.
So... Giants and outlaws are not really beings normaly associated with sacredness and places of worhsip.

Source on the outlaw thingy: Gudmundur Ólafsson, Surtshellir: a fortified outlaw cave in west iceland, (2009).

Ketil was father of Asbjorn, the father of Thorstein, the father of Surt, the father of Sigvat the Speaker-at-law, the father of Kolbein.

As Cigfran said "Surt" pretty much translates to "black" so it could be used as a name. Also, it seems to have been extremely uncommon to have the same name as a god, so if someone is named "Surt" it would IMO indicate that Surt is not a god.

And then we got a ton of mythology treating him as a giant