In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins

[Skyth]

Slaves were a part of the household when this epistle was written; mention of a practice is not a condonement of it.

Actually, since there is nothing in the bible saying that slavery is wrong and in fact there are verses telling people to enslave other people...I'd say that the passage is in face condoning the practice.

[MadZealot]

And in neither case does it make it the right thing to do to vandalize something or kill someone.

Of course not. The atheists in question have full rights to put up their idiotic board. In

My point is: if you strike out too hard against a 'norm', expect an inevitable backlash. Not saying it's right or wrong, more like action and reaction.

[MadZealot]

Actually, since there is nothing in the bible saying that slavery is wrong and in fact there are verses telling people to enslave other people...I'd say that the passage is in face condoning the practice.

And I'd say you're wrong.
Again: mention of a practice is not a condonement of it. Slavery was mentioned in Gone With the Wind as well, does that mean Margaret Mitchell condoned it?
Here is all of Colossians 3. Errant Scripture-clippings make more sense when viewed in their proper context.

Living as Those Made Alive in Christ
1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[b] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11 Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Instructions for Christian Households
18 Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.

21 Fathers,[c] do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.

22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

Now, what in there, besides a factual mention mention, construes a condonement of slavery? Encouragment of it?
If the apostle Paul had wanted to prattle on about the good of slavery, he would've. The man was a gifted prattler.
In fact, we have no idea whatsoever regarding the author's feelings on the issue of slavery-- whether he condones or opposes it-- quite simply because he doesn't tell us.

[For the record: the Atheist billboard doesn't even quote the entire verse, for if it did, it would not make its puerile point.]

in fact there are verses telling people to enslave other people...

Examples please.
Not casual mentions of the practice, but real exhortations to enslave.
Please cite chapter, and verse, and stay within context.

[Altair]

the Biblical verse does NOT condone slavery, no matter how the American Atheists spin it.

What's to spin? "Slaves, obey your masters" seems fairly unambiguous to me.

Col 3:18-25 contain, in toto, regulations for Christian households, including wives, husbands, children, and slaves, who were considered part of the household. Verses 22-25 say to the slave: go ahead and serve your earthy boss, but never forget your REAL boss is the Lord Christ. Slaves were a part of the household when this epistle was written; mention of a practice is not a condonement of it.

To look an abhorrent practice directly in the eye and fail to condemn it, in a text purporting to uphold moral conduct, no less, is reprehensible. The fact that the context of the times was different is precisely the American Atheists' point: Legislators, stop trying to foist your majority religion (or any religion) on us, because if you do, we will point out that in these modern times, much of it fails to pass muster.

And lots of slaveholders in the Old South considered some of their slaves "part of the household" too. That didn't make it any better.

[MadZealot]

What's to spin? "Slaves, obey your masters" seems fairly unambiguous to me.

What does the rest of the verse say? The Atheists only lifted the first four words.

To look an abhorrent practice directly in the eye and fail to condemn it, in a text purporting to uphold moral conduct, no less, is reprehensible. The fact that the context of the times was different is precisely the American Atheists' point: Legislators, stop trying to foist your majority religion (or any religion) on us, because if you do, we will point out that in these modern times, much of it fails to pass muster.

Fine if they want to make that point; I'd agree with them. But they can do that without errant scripture-clippings and poor representation of the facts.

[HeartShadow]

What does the rest of the verse say? The Atheists only lifted the first four words.







Fine if they want to make that point; I'd agree with them. But they can do that without errant scripture-clippings and poor representation of the facts.

Honestly, given how much their opponents love to cherry-pick the Bible to say any damn thing they want .... well, as much as I don't like the tactic, it's hard to blame other people for doing it in counterpoint.

[Skyth]

Of course not. The atheists in question have full rights to put up their idiotic board. In

My point is: if you strike out too hard against a 'norm', expect an inevitable backlash. Not saying it's right or wrong, more like action and reaction.

The problem is that you seem to be condoning the reaction rather than seeing it as the sign of a problem.

[Skyth]

]

Now, what in there, besides a factual mention mention, construes a condonement of slavery? Encouragment of it?

Hey, according to various people who claim to be Christians, mentioning something without condemning it is the same as supporting it.

Examples please.
Not casual mentions of the practice, but real exhortations to enslave.

In the old testament, the diety in question orders the Jews to conquer an opposing tribe and enslave/rape their women.

[Celtag]

The problem is that you seem to be condoning the reaction rather than seeing it as the sign of a problem.

People are going to believe how they want to. There is no need in throwing your viewpoint in front of everybody. It just creates hostility and does more harm than good. I mean I'm not going to get a billboard and say hey why have one God when you can have many. It doesn't do any good, people believe they way they want to, and for most their not going to change their minds because of a billboard or whatever.

[Skyth]

People are going to believe how they want to. There is no need in throwing your viewpoint in front of everybody. It just creates hostility and does more harm than good.

Putting out an opposing viewpoint should not be grounds for violence or property damage. The problem is this sort of behaavior (The vandalizing of the billboard) is basically bullying to stay silent and let us do what we want.

It's the same as burning a cross in someone's front yard.