The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum

So, there were a lot of threads, on the old forum and elsewhere, on whether a curse is considered 'ethical' and when it's considered a viable option.

But there's very little out of there about the precautions the caster needs to take in curse-casting or any other peculiarities attached to this kind of magical working.

Example: some hodoo practicationers advise to the caster to purify himself/herself after the ritual, and some witches advise to be particularly careful about cutting psychic ties to the cursed after the spellworking. Others will say that in hexing someone is better to shield to blend magically in the background before casting.

Does your experience/knowdledge validate any of the points above? Do you think that a curse should be approached as any other kind of spell? There's any book/online source you know that handles this subject in a serious way?


Personally, the closest I got to performing this kind of working is casting a binding spell... I had surreal nightmares loosely relating to the person it was casted upon for weeks later, but it would be hard to say whether they were caused by the trauma that made the binding necessary or they were a collateral effect of the binding.

Part of the reason I am trying to get informed is the fact that the above-mentioned 'person' might become a threat to my well-being again sometime in the nearish future, and chances are that I won't be able to take legal action against him unless things get further than they did last time I had deal with him (which, I have no intention of allowing if i can help it).

I have a pretty definite idea of the kind of working I want to do, and it doesn't really even count as a curse to me (although in hodoo this is considered a kind of crossing) as the main purpose here is drive him far, far away from me, but I would like to cover all my bases this time around. I also am not sure of how my personal feelings toward the person involved might factor in the outcome... there's still a lot of anger here.

But even setting aside my situation, I am interested in the theorical implications of this.

Thoughts?

 
I'll take my chances in asking another question even if this subject has not raised any interest so far.

I have read around  that in performing spells with that is perceived to be a 'destructive outcome' the added danger is that you are tying yourself energetically to another person, which is particularly undesiderable if the person in question is actually of the dangerous, 'negative' kind, and this bond would last as long as the spell is active.

I am puzzled by this reasoning as it seems to imply that the situations this kind of spellwork is necessary is exactly the kind it shouldn't be done.

I have read around  that in performing spells with that is perceived to be a 'destructive outcome' the added danger is that you are tying yourself energetically to another person, which is particularly undesiderable if the person in question is actually of the dangerous, 'negative' kind, and this bond would last as long as the spell is active.

I am puzzled by this reasoning as it seems to imply that the situations this kind of spellwork is necessary is exactly the kind it shouldn't be done.

 

Not that it shouldn't be done, just that if you are going to send destruction at someone you should give it extra thought, not just to make it actually work, but to avoid blowing your own fingers off.

The potential for backlash exists in just about anything you do, magical or mundane, that affects other people.  'Good' backlash, however, doesn't need to be prevented, so the restrictions are less.  Self-preservation doesn't come into it as much when the 'danger' of making someone else happy is that you might get some of that happy on yourself too.  

Some people advocate removing all emotion before sending out a hex or a banishment.  I don't find that works for me.  I try to carefully think out all the consequences of what I am doing, but my emotions are just screaming 'go away go away go away'.  In some situations it might be more than just go away, of course.  It might be 'lose your job, move in with your mother, and become allergic to cats'.  (Or variants thereof.)

Since emotion is a powerful tool, I don't usually try to rid myself of it before the working.  I just make sure to use it all up, to include it so thoroughly in the spell that when I release the spell I release the emotion.  Completely.  No back trail for backlash to flow up.  I see it as fire flowing back up the line of fuel still pouring onto it.  I aim for cutting it off cleanly, even cauterizing the spot where it was tied to me.

It makes me feel a bit empty after the spell, and the temptation is there to resurrect some of that emotion so I can still feel justified.  That is another place discipline comes in - trusting that it was justified without renewing the connection.  Some people are able to cut the connection first but, as I said, that doesn't work for me.  The important part is cutting it before the backflow.

Absent

So, there were a lot of threads, on the old forum and elsewhere, on whether a curse is considered 'ethical' and when it's considered a viable option.

But there's very little out of there about the precautions the caster needs to take in curse-casting or any other peculiarities attached to this kind of magical working.

Before I can really answer this I need to define how I see the term curse.

To me a curse is a singular pointed action with a singular pointed cause and affect / effect.  The affect / effect may range all the way up to inflicting physical death upon the target.  Yet the most important facet is it is always focused upon a singular action and desire, never a broad base action.

So beacuse it is quite focused in where and what it shall be applied against it is something that calls for great focus and attention to detail.  It requires the undivided focus and attention of the caster to be applied to his / her target.  It requires a degree of focus and commitment that is of such indepth and focused attention that by that fact alone it is only taken as a last recourse for me.

In preparing for such a task I would fast for a number of days prior to the actual casting of the curse.   I would not want anything weighing me down or blocking the flow of my energy within and any energy I would raise to assist me or used by me.  Assistance would be via any creature's or entities I would call upon to aide me, used by me would be any energy I actually try to raise, focus and direct that is not based upon my own life energies.

I would remove myself from being around anyone that might connect to me and potential become a collaterial target.  even to the point of retreating into the wilderness for a few days so I am unattentive to anything but the task I have at hand and all my focus is upon said task.

Part of the removing myself from things is so I can evaluate my desire after I have had a few days to remove emotion from the equation.  Something done in anger in this moment never looks like the right course a few hours or days later but is typically really hard to stop.  So I wold do everything in my power to ensure I was litterly as cold as ice emotionally when or if I arrived at the point of actually casting it.

For me I would create a target sigil for usage to ensure I address every facet of the action I want taken against the target.  If possible going so far as to ensure the target "gains" possession of the sigil to be carried upon some part of their person so that it becomes charged through thier own energies and locations.

Justification for such an act is really hard to give limits to.  What is justification to me might not be seen as such for another.  For instance say its a child molestor and killer, I'd have no problem going straight to a death curse for that to me is an afront to everything I stand for and believe in.  Yet an 18 year old who is charged as a pediphile because he had sexual relations with his 17 year old girlfriend would not warrant a curse in my opinion though to her parents it might be justified in their minds.

Now the other thing with curses in my opinon is one has to seperate themselves competely from the target.  That sounds like it should be an easy task but in my experience its harder to do that than to actually create and cast the curse.  Normally it is an emotional reaction that initiates the curse so its not only an emotional attachment to the one to be cursed but also an attachment to whoever it was that was harmed by the target.

For instance lets say my sister was raped and beaten and I want to strike at the person who did it.  I am angry and charged by his action yet can not forget that the anger is also connected to my sister and what was done to her.  So if I spin that curse I stand a great chance of not only directing it at the person who did the rape but also packing in the emotional attachment to my sister because she was raped.  Now she trully would not need that impactin gupon her to but that's what happens when one starts to look dowh that road of cursing.

Now closely related to a curse is the notion of binding a person.  For in realility a binding is but a shallow curse used to inflict a singular and pointed action upon the individual.  Not to the extreme of a death curse for sure but still something that will affect / effect them and cause an action to occur to them.

Yet within the pagan umbrella "Bindings" are tossed about as if they were simple things with no fore though needed.  Yet again its an emotional thing and that is the crippler of the usage.  So lets say I bind the rapist and cause him mental anguish and pain for what he did to my sister.  Yet my sister is still connected to him in my mind by the very action that causes me to Bind him.  So by proxy my sister gets bound as well though not necessarily to the same extent but still bound none the less by the connection.

One issue I've seen alot is the child that was binded because the person tried to bind the abussive parent or lover for doing something to the child.  The binding is spun to trap them yet the anger of what they did and who they did it to or against is present in the bindings so it wraps up the victim as well as the abuser.

Then none of this has even considered the notion of the Silver Threads that are formed between every individual you've met in your life.  Threads that also serve as gateways to connect you to varous people by varying degree's of closeness.  So that person who is your best friend and always feels and knows everything about you suddenly is cursed or bound because you didn't close that connection and sent them a zinger down that thread that in the past connected you two together so strongly.

So where you have a Curse and Binding as pointed and focused actions and repercussions you also have Hex's that are more broad based and directed towards wider scopes or issues.

Because a Hex is used to target wide concepts or actions you don't have to be quite a focused and precise in their usage.  For instance one might cast a hex upon someone who robbed them.  Yet the hex is cast to cause the robber to have all financial maters collapse about them.  So you've caused them to suffer when their rent check gets lost, their power cut off because a bill was not paid, their pay is hosed up and lost at the bank, their car repossed because payments were not made, etc.  Then you might have an escape clause so that once the robber realizes their mistakes and confesses to thier crime the hex stops working against them.

The Hex acting like a scatter shot gun that hits all facets of the target being shot at.  Yet the Curse or Binding more like a sharpshooter who aims directly for the bullseye and nothing else.  The Curse or Binding requiring and demanding almost unlimited concentration and focus upon the target and that singular result.  The Hex no where near as demanding upons one focus and attention to detail or direction.

Now all three do have the common element of binding yourself to the target.  Again many times due to emotional baggage that you have going into the action to be undertaken.  That 'I want him/her to pay and know I am the one doing it!" type mentatility.  The other potential facet is the "Constant need to check the results!" so you keep looking in or checking up on how your spell is performing and impacting upon the target.  You keep trying to tweek it as it unfolds and is executed thus you keep re-connecting yourself and your energy back into the spell.  Another potential binding is derived from an sense of elation that one gets when they have succeeded in their task and rejoice in getting thier man / women.  Perhaps the most stringent one though is the self inflicted punishment that goes with casting it but then having doubts or second thoughs about what you did or how you did it.

This is usually in my experince the "DId I make it strong enough?", "Did I make it encompassing enought?", "Did I charge it correctly?" "Was I justified in doing it the way I did?"  Each one similar in concept to holding a kite string then pulling upon the string to make sure the kite is doing as you wish while appearing to give you the sense you no longer really have control over it.

Myself I prefer the fire and forget type of casting.  It's most effective in detaching yourself from the spell once cast and removing the potential of feed back discharge upon you as the caster.  In many ways its also the coldest and inhumane way of discharging the spell and having no connection to it.  For me though I know I have achieved that state when afterwards I feel nothing in regards to the spell.  No elation nor emptyness afterwards, simply nothing for I have detached myself from it all together.

But the critical thing is that regardless of which one you choose they all require a great deal of focus, dedication to the creation and release of the spell, intense scrunity of what, why and how in the creation of how the spell will work.  None should be taken lightly nor without considerable distancing of oneself from their emotions when deciding to do it to begin with.

Though for me the most critical facet has always been the ability to live with myself regardless of which method I selected.  To live with and accept the notion that no matter how hard I try and ensure I have covered every potential backlash or colleterial damage I will always miss something and someone is going to get hurt because of it.  For even when you try and become the sharp shooter and aim for the smallest target of choice you can never fully know how the ripples will play outward from the action.

Not that it shouldn't be done, just that if you are going to send destruction at someone you should give it extra thought, not just to make it actually work, but to avoid blowing your own fingers off.

The potential for backlash exists in just about anything you do, magical or mundane, that affects other people.  'Good' backlash, however, doesn't need to be prevented, so the restrictions are less.  Self-preservation doesn't come into it as much when the 'danger' of making someone else happy is that you might get some of that happy on yourself too.  

Some people advocate removing all emotion before sending out a hex or a banishment.  I don't find that works for me.  I try to carefully think out all the consequences of what I am doing, but my emotions are just screaming 'go away go away go away'.  In some situations it might be more than just go away, of course.  It might be 'lose your job, move in with your mother, and become allergic to cats'.  (Or variants thereof.)

Since emotion is a powerful tool, I don't usually try to rid myself of it before the working.  I just make sure to use it all up, to include it so thoroughly in the spell that when I release the spell I release the emotion.  Completely.  No back trail for backlash to flow up.  I see it as fire flowing back up the line of fuel still pouring onto it.  I aim for cutting it off cleanly, even cauterizing the spot where it was tied to me.

It makes me feel a bit empty after the spell, and the temptation is there to resurrect some of that emotion so I can still feel justified.  That is another place discipline comes in - trusting that it was justified without renewing the connection.  Some people are able to cut the connection first but, as I said, that doesn't work for me.  The important part is cutting it before the backflow.

Absent

 
Thank you for explaining your method, you were very clear.  

I have some concerns I would find difficult to explain without getting into the specific detail ... cue in the bothersome details.
The purpose to the spell I want to do is either getting him fired by his current job in my college/hospital -which would leave him without the opportunity to corner me by force and holding his authority position over me- or drive him out of town.

Therefore the main intention I would outwardly express is for my protection, even if said protection would get realized through damage to his career.

BUT ... this guy tried to lock me inside a room and force himself on me, and even if it was a couple of years ago and I got myself out before the 'accident' got too far, I am pretty sure my emotions will be always screaming 'destroy and crush his whortless bones to dust' where he is concerned.

Do you think there's the chance that, even narrowing the focus of spell verbally the destructive energy released would be likely to 'speak louder'? Or would it just beadditional fuel?:confused:

While I would be still sleeping easy if something extreme was to happen to him, when it comes down to it, I don't want to sink down to his level.

There's also the fact I've been struck with the idea of taking cautionary measures against him since this Imbolc and the idea, triggered after I read some article on domestic violence, it just would not leave. I can't say if my istincts are picking up a possible danger in future or if i just realized that he is still a much real threat (he used to be a distant family friend and he actually tried to get me alone with him in secluded places for years before he managed it... with result listed above... plus I know he had serious mental health issues in past).

It probably doesn't matter, either way- I always knew there was going to come a moment I was going to have to deal with him again and I think it's wise to take precaution beforehand.

 
Are you his only target?  Sometimes when we start getting urges to do something on our own behalf it isn't just on our own behal'.  You sounds like you can handle him reasonably well, through unfortunate experience if nothing else.  It may be that your renewed need to do something about him is because you are subliminally or psychically aware that there are others out there who would have no idea of how to protect themselves.

There is a sort of noblesse oblige that sometimes happens when you have a skill others don't.  You might not feel it if you have no connection to the villain, but if you do then the problems of others can weigh on you, simply because you have an ability.

If I were involved in this situation I would probably want to get him fired too.  The backlash potential in that, of course, is that I might find myself without a job instead. (I learned this trying to remove a co-worker of my husband's.  He no longer had to work with him, but he was the one who wound up on e.i.)

I think I would go for something with a less potentially damaging backlash.  (It's best to plan for the backlash just in case, even though it isn't what you want to achieve.  It's part of the whole self-preservation thing)  Having him transferred, or doing the 'go be happy somewhere else' thing wouldn't be the best outcome if he's just going to start the same shit at his new place.  You would probably continue to feel like you should be doing something about him, whether that would be entirely reasonable or not.

Try for transparency.  For people to be able to see through him, for him to get caught in the middle of doing his thing.  Encourage people to come forward, his boss to get suspicious, etc.  If he needs treatment or removal from society let it become clear to those who can help.

The potential backlash here, of course, is that your life could become an open book.  Try to prevent that, for privacy if nothing else, but also try to be sure there is nothing likely to come out that would damage you.  Separate yourself from the outcome - don't offer to be the instrument of justice or the sole witness.  Let him be caught because of his continued behaviour, not because of you.

This sounds like a calm and even-handed spell, but you will probably have all kinds of anger, fear, humiliation, whatever, come up while you are planning and doing it.  Add that to your power and throw it at him.  ALL of it.

Absent

.. I had not ever read about those three workings as in play and contrast to each other. It's a very interesting point, so thank you.

Just remember that is the way I uderstand them and seperate them so it may differ from person to person.

I tried to reply to your pm but was unable to as it said your folder is full and can not receive anymore pm's.  So here is the answer to that .

..

Truthfully I think i'd have to see how your planing on re-working what I read on that site.  For as I read it I just keep hearing 'A fool and thier money are soon parted."  Nothing in the spell appears to be usable without purchasing the site owner's special products.

It's like the notion of graveyard dust to act in a negative capacity.  Yet graveyard dust by usage is one of the holliest of dirts as the graveyard is usually santified and dedicated before some deity.  Even a public graveyard is considered sacred and hollowed ground so thus would the dust from such a place be as well.

yet the dirt from an unhallowed grave would be used in a negative light.  Even the dirt beneath the hangman's gallows type thing is cursed and unhallowed.

About the only exception I can think of is the actual physcial dust in a crypt that is seen as death and decay of the rotting corpses to be found there in old tomb or crypt type settings.  

So to utilze running water as the purifyer in the spell and the action or movement to compel them to leave or move seems wrong to me.  If I personaly was going to use water I'd make a boat type structure with my intent and spell written upon it then set it aflame to transform the intent from written word to action and the water to carry it away from me to be acted upon with the air also carrying the transmutated energy via smoke to make it take affect / effect.   Sort of a double whammy and calling upon three elements to make it come to pass.

I'd not use earth at all as that to me implies steadfastness and solidity in action.  Its not pliable, moveable nor indicates any sort of movement to me.  yet fire, water and air all indicate movement and change with destruction and purification of action all occuring at once.

But as I stated i'd really want to see the spell and how it will be done before i'd say one way or the other.

That and I'm not really impressed with anyone who advises dumping the trash from a spell, break plates and such in a graveyard and walk off ignoring what they did or do the same but toss it into a creek or river to pollute it.

Since Darkhawk suggested an alternative solution to this problem, I've been seriously reconsidering my plans... on a side, I keep getting this restless, urgent feeling to do something about him ... as he is truly an important authority figure within the university, I would hate to be the indirect reason he gets a promotion and brings him abusive shittery somewhere else... at this point, I am not even certain this sense of danger in the back of my mind is saying me that he is still a threat to me or that he is being a big threat to someone else, somewhere else. I know it's important for me to listen tough, and that this feeling won't go until i take action about it. It's very strange, because i never had a sendsation of danger this strong and this compelling before... i'm not scared or panicky per se, yet my brain keeps firing warning signs.

This person is a truly BIG authority figure inside my university, and big in several paeditatrician research associations... so i am not sure how much cursing him into 'being transparent for the world to see in his wrong doings' will help to remove him from here, but it sounds like the most sensible course of action for now - i can still to turn to a protection spell later, and if the spell backlashes in making me transparent as well, worst case scenario, it's not like I got much to hide.

Now, about the spell... the best i came up so far is printing his picture, inscribing some of his personal data on the back of it, and pierce it with shrags of glass before locking it in a jar i might paint upon prison-like bars... during the working i would use tarot cards to focus my intent (the justice, the judgment, the wheel of fortune) of having luck to expose him in his wrongdoings.

This is something i thought entirely on my own, tough...if you (and other cauldronites) have any suggestions, they would be most welcome.

If I were advising someone in your situation I'd advise them to use a shattered mirror spell.  Basically you want him to suffer the pangs of guilt and agony he has inflicted upon those who he has touched or tried to touch.

You wouldn't want to use a complete mirror for that would simply reflect the joy and elation of his urgings back upon him.  Sort of like a serial killer will take a trophy from their victim to relive and re-experience the joy and elation they felt from teh act.  You'd want to cause him to suffer the anguish and pain of each cut and abrassion the shattered mirror inflicts upon the target.

Now you could enscribe a sigil or glyph upon the back of the mirror and charge it with the pain and suffering of yourself and call to you the suffering and pain of any other who was harmed by him.  Charge it during creation but then use the reflections upon the mirror to maintain the action and either grow stronger with his elation to cause more hurt or back away if he seems to have remorse.  Even go to the point where the reflection charges that he must admit his actions before the system and leave it to remove himself from its influence.  Those desires written or enscribed upon the mirror along with the sigil or glyph.

To really show the distortion one could place a photo or other item of the persons within some container to have the physical shards actually but and rub against the persons image and inflict it upon them.  Leave it safely in a place where it is protected yet subject to the sun adn moon reflecting upon the mirror and revealing the distortion of the persons soul and spirit, making them unable to hide it from view.

Now I do admit one has to put aside the notion of 7 years bad luck for breaking a mirror less they trap themselves into the shattered mirror itself.

Granted this is just a surface description of the scenario and would require more for though and planning as to what should be done.