Advice for Discussing New Religion with Parents

[Aine Rayne]

Your parents sound like mine when I wound up coming out to them about 9 years ago, down to a tee. What I ended up doing with my dad was playing up the "reason" aspect of my interest, and explaining it to him using scholastic research, metaphor, and logic that he could understand... My mom couldn't be persuaded, unfortunately (especially because she was the one that had custody), and had to come around on her own after a year or two.

Since every family situation is different, no one here can outline any real strategy for you. One thing I can recommend across the board, however, is avoid the rebellious and obnoxious teenager approach. If you're still being financially supported by them, then it's important to remember that there may be terms to that continued support. As crappy as it sounds, complete transparency about your life right now may be one of them. Also remember that they're your parents, and it might do well to approach the situation from their perspective to explain how you feel in ways that they can better understand and ultimately sympathize with. Sell them on the idea.



I agree with Dul, also. It's easier for others to understand you when you understand yourself and what you're looking for.

For the most part I'm not being supported by them. My father still has to support my six younger brothers and sisters, and like I said in other posts, I live with my grandmother. My mom gives me money when she can, but for the most part I don't ask her for anything, and I have a job (paltry as it is). All in all I can see everyone's repeated point, which is to keep a lid on it if I can and keep studying until I'm sure of myself and can explain it to them.

And although my dad can be reasoned with, it's more a "reason through emotions" approach. I live in a very emotional family and you'll find out I'm a very emotional person myself XD he'll ask basic questions and probably in the end just go with the "well it's your life and you're an adult" approach and mention that I should talk to my mom or grandmother. He won't care that much about statistics and metaphor, just reasons.

[Aine Rayne]

So far my father hasn't said anything more to me on the subject. I imagine he suspects that I'm not on this website for general research for knowledge's sake. I haven't hidden anything in my room, I have several very obvious books on witchcraft in general and my tarot cards where in super plain sight. I guess he's just not sure whether to confront me a third time. My mother, well I'm avoiding that conversation for as long as possible and preferably until I can get a neutral party to be there with me to force her to stop talking and listen without interrupting and stop both of us from being hostile or rude to each other.

That upfront stuff will work on my father, not my mother. The first thing she'll start with is that I'm being disrespectful and that she's still my mother and I need to respect her and she's not one of my friends to talk to any old kinda way, and because I'm still her child these things do matter to her and are still her business, and she's not talking down to me or trying to judge me, and i want to be an adult without all the responsibilities and I'm not grown til she says I am, etc. And yes these are all things she's said to me before about similarly personal subjects about the direction of my life. Oh and she'll probably start in on how I'm making Jesus sad and how I'm turning my back on God and listening to the devil's lies and how Jesus gave up his life for me and now I just tell him I don't care and whatever. Even though as far as deities go I'm still firmly in the Christian pantheon and the basic Christian belief that Jesus was both God and man and the savior of the world. Either that or she'll just get really really upset and feel like I'm abandoning her and telling her to get out of my life. Or just get very upset and concerned. I don't know, my mother is borderline bipolar and can be very hard to predict.

She's so fearful that she isn't doing enough to protect me and keep me well and taking care of me and teaching me right and that i'll struggle like her or worse, go to hell, that she's a very controlling person as a result. I don't think she realizes that she's downright paranoid. It's like, I can be mad and angry about how she behaves and the things she says, but in the end she's just trying to be the best mother she knows how and that neither of us are superb at articulating ourselves. I like that quote from that therapist, it applies quite well to me and my mother I think.

[Darkhawk]

Yeah, I haven't. We've had conversations about other people's religion, just not mine.

One of the things that always strikes me about this question is that for a lot of people, talking about their personal religious beliefs is introducing a new subject to a relationship. This is a vastly more difficult process than if you were already in the habit of having your religion be a topic you could have conversations about.

In this case, you have more experience talking with your parents about religion than I do, because it was simply not a topic of conversation for us (at least before I was in my late twenties and my father got interested in Pelagius). However, that conversation has not been personal for you.

That means that if you open the subject with them, you are inviting a greater level of intimacy than you currently have with your parents. Is that something you want?

[Nyktipolos]

That means that if you open the subject with them, you are inviting a greater level of intimacy than you currently have with your parents. Is that something you want?

/picks up a lightbulb

Huh. This certainly explains why I have such a strong aversion to discussing anything me!religion related with my parents.

[Aine Rayne]

That means that if you open the subject with them, you are inviting a greater level of intimacy than you currently have with your parents. Is that something you want?

Honestly, no, it's not. I'm a very personal person and don't even share everything going on in my mind with my closest friends and my boyfriend. It's not so much that I want to isolate myself as it is I'm not always comfortable with or able to fully articulate my thoughts and feelings and desires. Religion is a nice conversation to have and debate about, but otherwise I don't readily share my own feelings about it unless asked. Even in debates it's an intellectual study, not necessarily an emotional discussion. But I think it's also because my mom tends to just want to insert herself into everything I tell her, and not always in the most helpful way. Sometimes she's just very annoying and nagging, or she's pushy and controlling, or I just don't feel like hearing her talk and give suggestions I don't want. There are times where even she's like "should I just not make suggestions?" and it's like "yeah ma, I'm honestly not gonna take you up on any of these offers". And it's doubtless she'll be the same way about this topic. And considering the way she talks to me simply when I don't feel like getting up for church, it's likely she won't take this line of thinking well. The only reason she leaves me alone about the subject currently is because I have a job that frequently has me working Sundays.

As far as my dad goes, although he's calm and reasonable and won't swear I'll be damned or something, he's still naggy and pushy and quite frankly I just don't feel like putting forth the effort to explain myself to him. It's too much work for someone who will leave me to my own devices either way and let me live my life regardless. The only reason my friends have any idea is because religion is a common topic for us, most of my friends are spiritual in some way, but only a few of them are still solid Christians, the rest are on some other path or still searching for another path like I am. That and we don't judge each other based on religion. My best friend is Wiccan and I became her friend back when I was still strong in Christianity. My other best friend is gay and non-Christian. I have no problems with their lifestyles.

The only reason I'm looking to bring up the subject with my parents is because it's very tiring dodging them. My father is only easy to dodge because he currently lives in Florida. He's visiting because my sister is having a baby (actually, he was born this morning. I be an auntie ) which is why he had the opportunity to see my tarot cards and start this conversation. But I can't even carry my non-Christian books when I'm out with my mother because if she catches those titles it'll be an instantaneous rage. And that won't end well. She doesn't fight fair, and when she gets upset, it's all her talk and all me frustrated and angry and tearful, and she'll be tossing scriptures and essentially damnation and curses at me. The only way to have this conversation is to start with my dad and have him mediate. Which I don't feel like doing for two reasons: a) I really don't want to explain anything to him either, as I said before, and b) because that's really unfair to use him as a wall. My mother is a small woman, but she makes up for it spectacularly with her words and mind and emotions.

She's still essentially denying my adulthood, which makes it hard to feel validated in making my own choices and telling her I have my own lifestyle and am determined to have it. She's aware I'm an adult and am independent, but she certainly doesn't like it. But at the same time there's this underlying expectation that I take care of myself while staying under her rules. And then she gets upset when I don't tell her anything because I don't feel like arguing or being yelled down to. It's like "you're still my child and I want you to stay that way and be under my rules, but you still have to take care of yourself and act like an adult while remaining a child." I'm like gee now I know what all those people get angry at their parents about. She's still trying too hard to protect me from the world while at the same time trying to make me a capable adult. I love my mother but she makes me want to bang my head against a wall and just scream "make up your mind!" Every opinion she has is contradictory and double-sided and she truly doesn't even know it. As an example, she wants me to be happy with my boyfriend, but she doesn't want me to even lean against him in her presence. And says I don't have to throw my "impurity" in her face. Like, I'm not sitting here making out with him, I'm just leaning on his shoulder while watching anime on the computer. It's not like you caught us in my room doing something "special". I can develop my own spirituality and personal relationship with God, as long as it's her approved version, ie what we're taught in the Bible. So, such a conversation is not easy, it doesn't help I'm not always great at remaining calm and articulate.

You see why I jumped on the chance to ask someone for advice? Everyone on this forum has a stranger's perspective and a good portion of you know about the issue of presenting a non-standard lifestyle/religion to people who have always known the standard and taught you the standard and who don't like the non-standard because they're personally afraid of it or fear you are getting into something dangerous. At least some of you have similar situations to mine.

[Jenett]

She's still essentially denying my adulthood, which makes it hard to feel validated in making my own choices and telling her I have my own lifestyle and am determined to have it. She's aware I'm an adult and am independent, but she certainly doesn't like it.

Here's the thing. That's a really common thing for parents to go through.

But that doesn't mean you have to let them treat you badly while you're dealing with it - as long as you're neither dependent on them, or living with them.

It takes some dedication, but if you say "Mom, it's not all right to yell at me/berate me about this/put me down. If you keep doing that, I will stop spending time with you until you treat me better."

And then *enforce it*.

Don't go anywhere with her unless you can leave on your own if you need to. Be prepared to hang up the phone after a "Mom, I've told you: I refuse to deal with you when you treat me like that. We'll try again tomorrow/next week/next month." (Extending the pause each time she pushes can work really well.)

And before you say "You don't know what you're talking about" - well, I didn't talk to my mother for about 5 years, while I was in my late 20s. We're doing much better now, largely because she learned to avoid three specific topics until she could talk to me about them civilly. (And interestingly, we're now at the point we *can* talk about those things again.)

[My father died when I was 15, so not in the equation: I think there's some stuff he would have had a much easier time than she did with, and some stuff that would have been much harder.]

At the same time, don't bait them. You have a variety of times to explore Tarot, read books, etc. You don't really need to bring them with you while you're working through stuff with your parents. You may have an easier time separating the two things for a while.

A lot of people find merit in starting with something lighter/more friendly - so for example, if the parent reads/watches fantasy (or paranormal romance), talking about that, then edging into some related topics, and then finally into the actual religious stuff can work. Or talking about, say, seasonal cooking, then about honoring the seasonal changes, and then into ritual approaches to doing that.

Likewise, the birth of a new grandchild's a really emotional time for them: you will probably do better not throwing complicated and hard-for-them stuff into the mix at the moment, and instead waiting to bring it up when you're calm, in a good mood, and so are they. (And they've had a reasonable amount of sleep, regular meals, etc.)

Since you're living with your grandmother, you also have some resources there - a) she's gone through this before and b) I bet she has her own ways of dealing with your parents. You may also have other family members who could be supportive - not necessarily of your path, but of your choice to be an adult.

(You may also want to re-visit some stuff with your grandmother, too, mind. You mention you've got restrictions because of your height and your asthma - but people deal with both, just fine. Restrictions because there's stuff she's uncomfortable with in her home, or, say, doesn't like people coming in late because it keeps her up/wakes her up is one thing. Things that keep treating you like a minor who can't make your own decisions about your well-being, not so great for your long-term goals. That's stuff you can demonstrate over time, though, by showing good common sense.)

[Maps]

Everything you said, 100%.

[Aine Rayne]

Here's the thing. That's a really common thing for parents to go through.

But that doesn't mean you have to let them treat you badly while you're dealing with it - as long as you're neither dependent on them, or living with them.

It takes some dedication, but if you say "Mom, it's not all right to yell at me/berate me about this/put me down. If you keep doing that, I will stop spending time with you until you treat me better."

And then *enforce it*.

Don't go anywhere with her unless you can leave on your own if you need to. Be prepared to hang up the phone after a "Mom, I've told you: I refuse to deal with you when you treat me like that. We'll try again tomorrow/next week/next month." (Extending the pause each time she pushes can work really well.)

And before you say "You don't know what you're talking about" - well, I didn't talk to my mother for about 5 years, while I was in my late 20s. We're doing much better now, largely because she learned to avoid three specific topics until she could talk to me about them civilly. (And interestingly, we're now at the point we *can* talk about those things again.)

[My father died when I was 15, so not in the equation: I think there's some stuff he would have had a much easier time than she did with, and some stuff that would have been much harder.]

At the same time, don't bait them. You have a variety of times to explore Tarot, read books, etc. You don't really need to bring them with you while you're working through stuff with your parents. You may have an easier time separating the two things for a while.

A lot of people find merit in starting with something lighter/more friendly - so for example, if the parent reads/watches fantasy (or paranormal romance), talking about that, then edging into some related topics, and then finally into the actual religious stuff can work. Or talking about, say, seasonal cooking, then about honoring the seasonal changes, and then into ritual approaches to doing that.

Likewise, the birth of a new grandchild's a really emotional time for them: you will probably do better not throwing complicated and hard-for-them stuff into the mix at the moment, and instead waiting to bring it up when you're calm, in a good mood, and so are they. (And they've had a reasonable amount of sleep, regular meals, etc.)

Since you're living with your grandmother, you also have some resources there - a) she's gone through this before and b) I bet she has her own ways of dealing with your parents. You may also have other family members who could be supportive - not necessarily of your path, but of your choice to be an adult.

(You may also want to re-visit some stuff with your grandmother, too, mind. You mention you've got restrictions because of your height and your asthma - but people deal with both, just fine. Restrictions because there's stuff she's uncomfortable with in her home, or, say, doesn't like people coming in late because it keeps her up/wakes her up is one thing. Things that keep treating you like a minor who can't make your own decisions about your well-being, not so great for your long-term goals. That's stuff you can demonstrate over time, though, by showing good common sense.)

I wouldn't have gone "you don't know what you're talking about." I do know my mother wouldn't be happy with that approach though. She'd get very upset and probably pull out the respect card or something. Ya know "you're still my kid so you have to respect me" and it's like well how about my respect >.>" and I wouldn't start this conversation today or anything. Nope, it's all about my nephew for now. It's just something I need to consider and seek advice on because it'll likely come up eventually.

And I have no intention of baiting them. My tarot cards have been in the same obvious spot on my dresser for the last two weeks, I didn't think about moving them because it never occurred to me that my father would question about them. My room is usually closed and left alone by my grandmother, and she's determined to let me develop my independence, she has rules for safety's sake and chores because I live here, especially since I live here rent free. I don't take my books with me because I don't want to bait anyone or start anything. Trust me, it's not worth it.

Books wouldn't work. My mom loves the paranormal romance and such, but that doesn't mean anything to her besides being good stories. That wouldn't help ease into a religious conversation. It would lead to a writing conversation because we both write, but that's about it. I will give the "respectful demand of mutual respect" scenario you suggested the next time we get into an argument, which hopefully won't be any time soon. Really, if I can help it, this subject won't come up with my mother for a while. My dad will be relatively easy though. Yeah, pray for me about this *sigh*

[Jenett]

Books wouldn't work. My mom loves the paranormal romance and such, but that doesn't mean anything to her besides being good stories. That wouldn't help ease into a religious conversation. It would lead to a writing conversation because we both write, but that's about it. I will give the "respectful demand of mutual respect" scenario you suggested the next time we get into an argument, which hopefully won't be any time soon. Really, if I can help it, this subject won't come up with my mother for a while. My dad will be relatively easy though. Yeah, pray for me about this *sigh*

On the mutual respect: I know people who've had luck with "Mom, I know you love me, but right now, I don't feel that, I feel like you're just yelling at me, and it means I can't think about what you're trying to share."

It totally doesn't work in my family's communication mode (we don't yell, for one thing, and outward expression of emotion not so much, either.) But there's lots of variations on the basic idea once you adapt it for family culture.

Chances are your public library has a bunch of books about having difficult conversations: they have great ideas for navigating this kind of thing. (The one I've read is Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton and Sheila Heen, but there are bunches out there.)

For the "But you have to respect me", you can try "Mom, I do respect you, and I take your opinions very seriously. But I'm also growing up, and part of that process is trying different things. I want to keep being able to talk about complicated things with you, but only if it's an actual conversation, where we both get to share, not just you telling me what to do."

On books - honestly, give it a try. (And when I say, gradually, over time, I mean over a few months at least.) Those paranormal romances? Start there. Slide over into a series that does a decent job with its folklore. Talk about where that folklore comes from, and why it's so effective with people. (Demonstrate that you can tell truth from fiction.) Bring up a series that has some well-designed magical or ritual work in it. Talk about why that holds together, compared to a series that doesn't. Slide over into what might be appealing about a community of people who share those beliefs/practices/etc. And after half a dozen or more conversations, you've shifted from "This is a fun series" to "We're sort of talking about the benefits of X"

You can do this with other topics: your parents know your hot buttons, but I bet you know theirs, too. One of the things that got my mother past the reactionary stage about my own practice was my focusing in a lot of our early conversations on the fact I could -regularly and reliably - have deep and serious conversations with co-religionists about complex topics. (Here, but also my training group, and various friends.)

She's a devout Catholic, and it's something she's had a hard time finding outside of very specialised settings (lay minister training or things like that.) But by starting there, she could immediately see why I might find that sort of appealing (and it gave us a relatively neutral area in the topic to start with - community structure, rather than say, polytheism or magic. And then I worked around to my definition of magic (not what she assumed), and so on. Again, took quite a while (a couple of years, since I was living 1500 miles away at the time, and we don't talk much on the phone either.) But it worked.

(In my case, she was okay with polytheism as a theory of things long before she was okay with thinking about it as a practice - but my father was a specialist in Greek theatre, so the basic concept had been part of her life long before I was born.)

On your side, you do have to sort of plan out the conversations (or at least, be aware of where you could take specific topics, if you choose.) But that's part of being an adult - and part of being a magical practitioner. Deciding what you say, and when, to nudge what you want into being.

[Etheric1]

I wouldn't have gone "you don't know what you're talking about." I do know my mother wouldn't be happy with that approach though. She'd get very upset and probably pull out the respect card or something. Ya know "you're still my kid so you have to respect me" and it's like well how about my respect >.>" and I wouldn't start this conversation today or anything. Nope, it's all about my nephew for now. It's just something I need to consider and seek advice on because it'll likely come up eventually.

She wouldn't be happy with it, but that's her problem, not yours. If she wants to play the respect card, tell her that goes both ways. She's disrespecting you, and no you do not HAVE to respect her in this. That's her again enforcing her beliefs. I think Jenett said it perfectly in both her posts - you might have to be more aggressive and show her you will not talk to her if she continues to act as she is. You can respect her love and be grateful for what she has done, but that doesn't mean you have to accept everything she says and does. You are not her slave.

If it comes to this, you do have to enforce what you say, she may not learn any other way. It sucks for everyone, but she needs to grow up and realize you are your own person.