Alienation from the greater pagan community

[Melamphoros]

I don't know why this offends you. The question is how we have experienced a sense of alienation as a heathen- which I am, and not another path. If you feel that your path also has issues in this area than you should provide your own perspective rather than attacking mine. Since you feel the same way, we could have discussed this on common ground without the snarkiness.

I try to be PC, but frankly, I cant speak up and mention all paths that may have similarities to my own. Especially when it isn't my place to do so.

Stephy summed it up best: Your statement painted non-heathens with a very broad, inaccurate, and (frankly) insulting brush.

[Lokabrenna]

I ask this question because I feel like I am sort of trapped in the middle. I'm a heathen, but I also consider myself a Druid and very Left Libertarian in my political views. I find it hard for me to fit in to either.

It's just one of the reasons I don't call myself a Heathen lol. I just find that my values mesh better with the greater Pagan community. What I have in common with Heathens is that we honour the same gods, and that's about it.

[SunflowerP]

I don't know why this offends you. The question is how we have experienced a sense of alienation as a heathen- which I am, and not another path. If you feel that your path also has issues in this area than you should provide your own perspective rather than attacking mine. Since you feel the same way, we could have discussed this on common ground without the snarkiness.

I try to be PC, but frankly, I cant speak up and mention all paths that may have similarities to my own. Especially when it isn't my place to do so.

It would go a very, very long way, if you stopped using the word "pagan" to mean "Wiccish neoPagans who do little research".

Sunflower

[Juniperberry]

Stephy summed it up best: Your statement painted non-heathens with a very broad, inaccurate, and (frankly) insulting brush.

I'm sorry you took it that way but I think you've failed to take into account, or are unaware of, some of the dynamics and politics that- while maybe not unique- definitely have a heightened tension within the heathen community, and with which most heathens become quickly familiar with.

I assume you are aware, though, as this board has been home to many arguments concerning Northern Tradition paganism, Edda-thumping, etc. In fact, TC currently has a separate group for Alternative Norse Paganism which the members post to in purposeful ....alienation? of the heathenry SIG? Whatever the case, it's a strong statement that pertains to, and causes, discussions such as these.

So, while I'm sorry you felt insulted, my post was directed more towards that issue within the heathenry community and not the general pagan (or otherwise) audience and their dynamics with one another.

[Juniperberry]

It would go a very, very long way, if you stopped using the word "pagan" to mean "Wiccish neoPagans who do little research".

Sunflower

Again, I'm sorry you read it that way. I thought I was very careful to qualify some pagans sometimes can have that reaction.

[cigfran]

...Or from the heathen community?

I ask this question because I feel like I am sort of trapped in the middle. I'm a heathen, but I also consider myself a Druid and very Left Libertarian in my political views. I find it hard for me to fit in to either.

It strikes me that the poll as presented doesn't cover this portion of the question... that of feeling alienated from the heathen community due to one's social or political views.

But is there really a heathen community to feel alienated from? It strikes me as very thin and fragmented, with only a few online points of collection, each of which has its own distinct character.

As for the 'religion with homework' rubric... I've never particularly appreciated that, either. It seems both to overemphasize one feature of Heathenism and unnecessarily dismiss the quality of thought and study that goes into so many other faiths.

[Juniperberry]

As for the 'religion with homework' rubric... I've never particularly appreciated that, either. It seems both to overemphasize one feature of Heathenism and unnecessarily dismiss the quality of thought and study that goes into so many other faiths.

Yes, I can see that.

Clearly I haven't been very clear (:P), but one of the reasons for bringing up the "religion with homework" wasn't to say that heathenry is more scholastic, but that that kind of understanding about heathenry creates division. This is why I referenced Mr. Fyhn-- to show that this is (at times) a necessary approach to heathen mythology and structure of faith that can oftentimes be misunderstood/stereotyped as elitism and fundamentalism by others. (Those others being some pagans [Celts, feri's, Kemetics, etc] who sometimes don't appreciate that conversation.) Dang, I wish I had an example...but, really, I have gotten the sense that dialouge concerning the "homework" of heathenry has led to these assumptions and tension--even when the homework has little to do with elitism/fundamentalism, but more to do with a valuable and valid aspect of heathen philosophizing. I can't say how much is the same for other faiths, but as a heathen, it has been something that I've experienced a few times.

But is there really a heathen community to feel alienated from? It strikes me as very thin and fragmented, with only a few online points of collection, each of which has its own distinct character.

Which is why I added what I did about Bob and Bil, and about heathenry being an individual home-style faith rather than some universal one. I wouldn't consider my heathenry Mark Stinson's heathenry- though I would say that I can get a general understanding of what his heathenry is about just on basis of worldview.

I'm not sure if the community is thin... I'll be attending a gathering here in Phoenix soon that will be rather large, ( six hours of live music, vendors, and activities--so excited!). Stinson's "Lightning on the Plains" hosts a really large gathering (several hundred) and Bob's kindred (I think it was yours, right?) hosted a multi-state gathering in New Mexico this summer.

I do think the online community can seem thin, though.

[Marilyn/Absentminded]

As for the 'religion with homework' rubric... I've never particularly appreciated that, either. It seems both to overemphasize one feature of Heathenism and unnecessarily dismiss the quality of thought and study that goes into so many other faiths.

Not just Heathenism - I think every single recon religion has used and over-used that phrase to the point that it is generally avoided these days as a tired cliche. It doesn't really mean anything and I can't see that it ever has. Except maybe 'The research I do is more legitimate than the research you do because mumble mumble mumble.'

Absent

[Juniperberry]

Not just Heathenism - I think every single recon religion has used and over-used that phrase to the point that it is generally avoided these days as a tired cliche. It doesn't really mean anything and I can't see that it ever has. Except maybe 'The research I do is more legitimate than the research you do because mumble mumble mumble.'

Absent

Can we just eliminate it from all arguments then? Because I can't tell you how many times I've been accused (on the otherside of that) for not being spiritual because I ...read too much? Yeah, I don't get it either.

It's just a pissing match, OP, and its been going on since longer than you or I have been around. Both sides take their jabs and promote their POV and... who are they even trying to convince? People are moved by something and that's what they follow.

My suggestion? Don't worry about it, don't define it, explore what you find interesting and remember to look beneath the surface of things.

[hlewagastir]

But is there really a heathen community to feel alienated from?

Good point.
I would say that there are heathen communities. I´m a member of a few; 2-3 online, a couple of local and one national, all of them have their own nuances on tradtions, rules, structure and purposes.
Most of the communities I partake in rely on a recon approach, but all the other flavours are out there; Norse-Wicca, reenactors, recons, Odinist, pan-aryans, dual-trad... You name it.

If you are alienated from all the local communities, national communities, international communities and online communities I guess you could consider yourself alienated from the "heathen community"..,