Faith and Silence.

[SatSekhem]

I've been talking with people a lot lately about my practice and how I go about it. However, someone recently mentioned that they keep quiet about whom they serve for good reason: in effect, in knowing the entity that you serve, they are more likely to be able to work bad magic with the aid of said patron. This really has gotten me thinking a lot lately about silence and faith.

Do you think it is wise to keep your faith/practices quiet?
Do you think it is wise to keep the names of your patron(s) quiet?
Why or why not?

[Maps]

Do you think it is wise to keep your faith/practices quiet?

This + cultural appropriation could be it's own long-winded thread! But fake and hidden ceremonies and rituals is pretty well-documented within the context of Western interaction with NA/FN groups. And then you've got mystery cults and initiatory systems, among lots and lots of other kinds of rules, reasons, and taboos...

Anyways, don't mind me, I'm just here to take notes.

[Vale]

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Do you think it is wise to keep your faith/practices quiet?
Do you think it is wise to keep the names of your patron(s) quiet?
Why or why not?

Do you think it is wise to keep your faith/practices quiet? faith no. Practices yes
Do you think it is wise to keep the names of your patron(s) quiet? No strong feelings on this one.

I make no secret of being pagan. I don't shout it from the rooftops but the clues are there for those who chose to see them. If I'm asked outright then I'll give a straight and truthful answer most of the time.

I am much more circumspect about what I actually do. Trad Witchcraft is generally much misunderstood and quite frankly, any attempt to explain usually causes more misunderstanding. A signature that I use elsewhere sums it up pretty well - for those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not, no explanation will suffice.

It is a lot easier to say nothing. If a questioner thinks I'm wiccan/white witch /druid I don't bother to correct them. It is a useful smokescreen especially in this part of the world.

[Jenett]

Do you think it is wise to keep your faith/practices quiet?
Do you think it is wise to keep the names of your patron(s) quiet?
Why or why not?

In general:
Right now, yes, relatively private. (Um, for someone who under the persistent pseudonym - Jenett Silver - I've used for over a decade has various published work, a website, presentations at various events, etc.)

But I'm currently not out at work except to one co-worker (new job, I'm expecting to be quietly more open once I'm no longer probationary in August.)

But my boss is a (very thoughtful and open-minded) Mormon, and most of my colleagues are various strands of active Christian, and I'd rather be better established there before I get more specific about my own practice.) And I keep Pagan stuff away from my professional/work persona (which is the only place I use my legal name these days: everywhere else I'm Jenett.)

Information as power:
I do also believe that information is power. Both that it gives us choices - but that it gives other people ways to affect us, for good and for bad.

I am generally relatively private about a lot of specifics related to M'Lady and Himself (the two deities I work with most often personally, and to whom I am specifically committed.) I do talk about them at times, but basically, want a good reason, not just "Oh, someone asked."

(Various other practices fall in that category too, but that's the most obvious one.)

As you'll notice, those are use names - not the names I use for invocation. That's partly for the practical reasons that the names I use aren't vastly more informative than an explanation, but also because being careful how I use the names is important.

There are also things I don't widely discuss online because I am quite aware that pieced together with other sources of info, they're quite illuminating about my weak points. Various people do know those things, for one reason or another, but I try not to spread them around too widely, especially in broad open communication networks.

I try to keep the stuff I say as honest and open as I can. But there's also places I eye a post, and go quietly past. Or do the same in face to face conversations.

And finally, silence for other reasons:
I'm committed to (and partially responsible *for*, as a 3rd degree) an oathbound tradition: there is some stuff we have mutually agreed not to share. Most of these things are not that earth shattering, but are important: they're of the "you can learn a lot about someone by seeing their bedroom, but that doesn't mean everyone you meet gets to see my bedroom" sort of privacy.

(Mostly, our oathbound bits concern initiations and two other specific rituals, privacy of other members, and giving people a chance to have their own experiences without overly influencing their experience of them.)

[sephira]

Do you think it is wise to keep your faith/practices quiet?
Do you think it is wise to keep the names of your patron(s) quiet?
Why or why not?

I think that there are definitely certain instances and certain traditions where particular practices should remain out of non-pagan conversation and even out of pagan conversation. Some traditions, I understand, are very private about the way they practice their faith and I respect that.

I live in the bible belt where being pagan is akin to being a satanist. Being a witch is completely misunderstood! Generally, I don't announce that I am a witch until I know the person/people relatively well, but that doesn't mean that it's going to be well received. There was a girl at the place I interned who just couldn't handle the fact that I wasn't christian and kept trying to convert me every day!!! Even one of my best friends has a bit of a hard time with my spirituality from time to time.

Honestly, I don't think it's particularly fair that the Abrahamic religions can be more open and free about their spirituality and many pagans feel as though they need to hide theirs. Sometimes I even feel like hiding my spirituality. Again, it is related to where I live. It's not like I go around hiding my head in shame or anything. I used to have a bumper sticker on my car that alluded to the fact that I was a witch, but it disappeared one day (it was on a magnet). Since then, I just don't bother with one.

As for my patron...when I am around my pagan friends or online with them I speak freely of him. As for the general public, I have a pendant with him on it and when asked what it is I just say who it is and what he represents. Sometimes they are confused, giving me a quizzical look, especially if they know of him and wonder why a white girl is wearing a Hindu God around her neck, but they don't say anything, thankfully, because I may very well explain.

[Asch]

I think that there are definitely certain instances and certain traditions where particular practices should remain out of non-pagan conversation and even out of pagan conversation. Some traditions, I understand, are very private about the way they practice their faith and I respect that.

I live in the bible belt where being pagan is akin to being a satanist. Being a witch is completely misunderstood! Generally, I don't announce that I am a witch until I know the person/people relatively well, but that doesn't mean that it's going to be well received. There was a girl at the place I interned who just couldn't handle the fact that I wasn't christian and kept trying to convert me every day!!! Even one of my best friends has a bit of a hard time with my spirituality from time to time.

Honestly, I don't think it's particularly fair that the Abrahamic religions can be more open and free about their spirituality and many pagans feel as though they need to hide theirs. Sometimes I even feel like hiding my spirituality. Again, it is related to where I live. It's not like I go around hiding my head in shame or anything. I used to have a bumper sticker on my car that alluded to the fact that I was a witch, but it disappeared one day (it was on a magnet). Since then, I just don't bother with one.

As for my patron...when I am around my pagan friends or online with them I speak freely of him. As for the general public, I have a pendant with him on it and when asked what it is I just say who it is and what he represents. Sometimes they are confused, giving me a quizzical look, especially if they know of him and wonder why a white girl is wearing a Hindu God around her neck, but they don't say anything, thankfully, because I may very well explain.

I agree that it is unfair that many of us are forced to silence for fear of condemnation and censure by our peers and authorities.

Generally if someone point blank asks me if I'm religious I'll usually say yes and then clarify that I'm not Christian (mostly because every damn time it comes up they then follow up by asking what Church I attend ).

I have been 'bitten' by coming out. A friend I'd known for 24 years (I'm barely 28) condemend me to hell treated me abominally and sicced a pack of bigots on me when I politely asked herself and her mother to stop attempting to convert me. That was more disapointing than hurtful.

I am lucky enough to live in a reasonably liberal part of the country although my particular county is a bizarre mixture of fundamental Christians and other groups such as Ramtha followers as well as a robust Mormon Jehovah's Witness community. So talking openly about my religion can open me up to some pretty awkward and risky situations if I'm not careful.

Here's the thing though, ultimately, it's no one's business. Most of the time if someone asks I'll (as I've said) agree that I'm religious and if possible leave it at that.

[Jenett]

Honestly, I don't think it's particularly fair that the Abrahamic religions can be more open and free about their spirituality and many pagans feel as though they need to hide theirs.

My standard line about that is that I actually got far more grief about being an active Catholic than I've ever gotten about being an active Pagan. (Totally true, and totally true even living in New England, where Catholicism is quite common.)

I'm quiet about the Pagan bits for more complicated reasons: most often that I don't want to spend tons of time explaining in situations where it's really not the appropriate focus, or where (for various reasons) the situation places weight on conversations in a way that doesn't serve what I'm supposed to be doing.

[thorsvin]

in knowing the entity that you serve, they are more likely to be able to work bad magic with the aid of said patron.

I would think that if your patron is happy with what you are doing for him/her, then that patron would not help somebody work malefic magic on you. I actually think the Pagan community needs more publicity if we are ever going to have any kind of mainstream acceptance.

"Fearlessness is better than a faint-heart for any man who puts his nose out of doors. The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago."
- Skirnismal

[Darkhawk]

I've been talking with people a lot lately about my practice and how I go about it. However, someone recently mentioned that they keep quiet about whom they serve for good reason: in effect, in knowing the entity that you serve, they are more likely to be able to work bad magic with the aid of said patron.

... because everyone works with backstabbing double-crossers or is so bad at their service that the Powers will think them worthy of a smite? I mean, putting aside the idea that bad magic is sufficiently common to require extreme measures to deal with.

Do you think it is wise to keep your faith/practices quiet?
Do you think it is wise to keep the names of your patron(s) quiet?
Why or why not?

As a general rule, I think it tacky to talk overmuch about religion in spaces in which that is not on point; this is how I was raised, to treat religion as a private, personal matter. This means that I find overwhelming chunks of public discourse to be tacky. This is not wisdom; this is the standard of civility and privacy I was taught by my environment as a child.

Being pagan doesn't change that. It just makes it more likely that, should it actually be a relevant conversation, I will have to use more words to be understood. Which Powers I deal with are even less likely to be relevant in conversation.

Wearing religious details on my sleeve feels approximately as socially appropriate as leaving the house naked. And quite likely to be chilly, especially at this time of year.

[veggiewolf]

I've been talking with people a lot lately about my practice and how I go about it. However, someone recently mentioned that they keep quiet about whom they serve for good reason: in effect, in knowing the entity that you serve, they are more likely to be able to work bad magic with the aid of said patron.

This seems akin to the notion that giving out one's true name gives others power.

I cannot, of course, say I know the motivations of the deities I serve, but worrying that someone else might be able to direct magic at me by knowing who They are isn't something I do.

Do you think it is wise to keep your faith/practices quiet?
Do you think it is wise to keep the names of your patron(s) quiet?
Why or why not?

I think it is wise to keep quiet in situations that don't call for religious discussion. Since I'm a WASP-by-birth, that means pretty much everything outside of TC and my in-house family.