A Different Approach

[Juniperberry]

Here is a blog link for a woman I find rather interesting. She's a Historian of Religions specializing in Scandinavian mythology, and her main goal is to uncover the secret mystery traditions of historical heathenry. I neither agree or disagree with her, but I do enjoy her perspective. ( I read something from her recently in which she made a case for Heimdallr as Ymir.)

Thoughts?

[SunflowerP]

Here is a blog link for a woman I find rather interesting. She's a Historian of Religions specializing in Scandinavian mythology, and her main goal is to uncover the secret mystery traditions of historical heathenry. I neither agree or disagree with her, but I do enjoy her perspective. ( I read something from her recently in which she made a case for Heimdallr as Ymir.)

Thoughts?

Hmm... it looks like she might be a little bit attached to some of the now-discredited notions about pan-European paganism, but she does seem to have the scholarly chops necessary to keep them in check. I've often felt that modern recon Heathenry is too inclined to avoid anything that smacks of Mystery, magic, or for lack of a better word shamanistic practice - I completely get why there's an aversion to it (between distancing themselves from how pervasive the Wiccish frame was in neoPaganism, and Freya Aswynn's take on Norse mysticism), but it does elide some genuine evidence of mysticism in the archaeological/literary/etc record. Cohesive Mystery traditions that are secret/initiatory? I'm a bit skeptical. Mysticism in some form? Seems very likely.

Scholarly examination of the mystical elements, it seems to me, is not only useful for determining how mysticism itself was approached in ancient Germanic culture, but for shedding light on the culture, and its ways of thinking, as a whole. This looks like it might help to fill the existing gap.

Sunflower

[bobthesane]

Hmm... it looks like she might be a little bit attached to some of the now-discredited notions about pan-European paganism, but she does seem to have the scholarly chops necessary to keep them in check. I've often felt that modern recon Heathenry is too inclined to avoid anything that smacks of Mystery, magic, or for lack of a better word shamanistic practice - I completely get why there's an aversion to it (between distancing themselves from how pervasive the Wiccish frame was in neoPaganism, and Freya Aswynn's take on Norse mysticism), but it does elide some genuine evidence of mysticism in the archaeological/literary/etc record. Cohesive Mystery traditions that are secret/initiatory? I'm a bit skeptical. Mysticism in some form? Seems very likely.

Scholarly examination of the mystical elements, it seems to me, is not only useful for determining how mysticism itself was approached in ancient Germanic culture, but for shedding light on the culture, and its ways of thinking, as a whole. This looks like it might help to fill the existing gap.

Sunflower

Most of us will, when pressed, admit that we do in fact have a mystical side. Some seem more ready to embrace it than others. I am actually one of those.

I believe in omens. I believe in signs. I do believe that the gods continue to interact directly with the world. While I don't claim that I talk to One-Eye every day, I do find significance in the presence of ravens when I am thinking.

We know there were mystery cults in the Viking Age. The berserks and ulfsarks tended to belong to Odinic brotherhoods, for example, and these groups were very much initiatory mystery cults. In the Icelandic sagas mention is made of spaewives making cultic appearances amongst the populace, serving as oracles and sages. Sorcery, witchery, and mystery practices were by no means unknown to our ancestors.

[hlewagastir]

I generally agree with you, but I would like to see some reliable sources supporting the following statement.

The berserks and ulfsarks tended to belong to Odinic brotherhoods, for example, and these groups were very much initiatory mystery cults.

I have heard people talk about this before, but so far I have not come across it myself.

[bobthesane]

I generally agree with you, but I would like to see some reliable sources supporting the following statement.





I have heard people talk about this before, but so far I have not come across it myself.

I will see if I can dig up which sagas this comes from for you

[Juniperberry]

I will see if I can dig up which sagas this comes from for you

I think Tacitus first mentions a warrior cult that engaged in homosexual initiation rites, and I'm pretty sure HRED has also discussed it. But, Egil was a berserker and he wasn't involved in any mystery cults.

I don't have trouble accepting that there were trade cults (warrior etc), but I'm not ready to just accept that there were mystery cults, either. Course, I'm not the most knowledgeable, but from the little I've read it doesn't seem to fit into the WV. Shamanism and magic, absolutely. I like blogs like these, though, because she is focused on the history and not solely on new age wants. The what-ifs are fun, and I've always thought there's something very powerful in the Voluspa.

I also think recons, both hard and soft, are very spiritual but in a different manner. First of all (aside from the Nazis), there has to be something that motivated people to look into a little-known religion for their own spiritual fulfillment. That's why I never understand the claims that recons aren't spiritual or spiritual enough. I think anyone who says that the religious norm isn't satisfying and then makes the effort to search out something that is, is very spiritually aware and connected. That they keep it personal, or choose to reconstruct something as closely as they can, doesn't mean that they're not.

[SunflowerP]

I also think recons, both hard and soft, are very spiritual but in a different manner. First of all (aside from the Nazis), there has to be something that motivated people to look into a little-known religion for their own spiritual fulfillment. That's why I never understand the claims that recons aren't spiritual or spiritual enough. I think anyone who says that the religious norm isn't satisfying and then makes the effort to search out something that is, is very spiritually aware and connected. That they keep it personal, or choose to reconstruct something as closely as they can, doesn't mean that they're not.

If that relates to what I said, I should probably clarify - I was speaking of mysticism as distinct from spirituality, not synonymously with it. (I'm pretty sure you weren't saying I was doing that; I'm guessing it's that what I said reminded you of those who do use the two words interchangeably, or who seem to think that mysticism is the only way to be spiritual.)

So, yeah, pretty much agree with you. I'd go so far as to say that even those few who fit the stereotype of "all study, no (other) practice" are spiritual - on the grounds that the amount of study involved is such that few would stick to it if it didn't give them some level of fulfilment of the spirit - though I might question whether what they're practicing is heathenry as religion.

Sunflower

[SunflowerP]

Most of us will, when pressed, admit that we do in fact have a mystical side. Some seem more ready to embrace it than others. I am actually one of those.

Yeah, I kind of erased you there, didn't I? A bit embarrassing, since I have a great deal of respect for your ability to be "hard recon with mysticism" as an integrated whole. It's not something I encounter often, though.

Sunflower

[Juniperberry]

If that relates to what I said, I should probably clarify - I was speaking of mysticism as distinct from spirituality, not synonymously with it. (I'm pretty sure you weren't saying I was doing that; I'm guessing it's that what I said reminded you of those who do use the two words interchangeably, or who seem to think that mysticism is the only way to be spiritual.)



Sunflower

Pretty much. Just piping in.