Wepwawet--jackal or wolf?

[Bezenwepwy]

I guess I can ask Terence if there was anything further about it in the original reports.

Okay. Terence confirmed that Lacau would have been speaking very generally when he refered to the finding of wolf mummies and that 'large canid' is the most specific it was likely to be. Also, it wasn't said in any sort of official capacity or even in a report of the discovery. It was a mention in Lacau's travel log.

[SatAset]

Okay. Terence confirmed that Lacau would have been speaking very generally when he refered to the finding of wolf mummies and that 'large canid' is the most specific it was likely to be. Also, it wasn't said in any sort of official capacity or even in a report of the discovery. It was a mention in Lacau's travel log.

Thank you for confirming that for us. That's the impression that I got when I read it in Terence DuQuesne's book The Salakhana Trove.

[Setnakht]

The following four articles throw light on the discussion. I would ask that people, if they choose to reply, avoid sarcasm, petulance, and snide comments that undermine the whole purpose of The Cauldron. Opinions may vary. But our presummed dedication to the same gods, should motivate us to show at least common politeness to each other, regardless
of our differing opinions.
These articles further help fill in some interesting, up to date information on the wolf/jackal issue as it pertains to north Africa. Please forgive the fact that the articles in some spots repeat information from the other articles. But it seemed to me that each article had something unique to contribute to the topic.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...n-jackal-wolf/
http://blogs.nature.com/amch/2011/01...e-african-wolf
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-...is-aureus.html
http://doglawreporter.blogspot.com/2...s-african.html

[Chabas]

The following four articles throw light on the discussion. I would ask that people, if they choose to reply, avoid sarcasm, petulance, and snide comments that undermine the whole purpose of The Cauldron. Opinions may vary. But our presummed dedication to the same gods, should motivate us to show at least common politeness to each other, regardless
of our differing opinions.

*** MOD HAT ON ***

Sethnakht, TC rules clearly states that moderation is to be left to the mods - and that includes telling others how they can or cannot behave in a thread. If you feel rules are being broken and moderation is needed, do please warn staff through the report to moderator link - while we make an effort to catch as much as we can directly, we are human and have been known to overlook things. You've been around long enough to know better than to step in yourself. This counts as a formal warning. If you get three warnings, a one week gag will follow. --Chabas TC Staff

[Bezenwepwy]

The following four articles throw light on the discussion.

The articles are interesting but even they admit that golden jackals and the Egyptian 'jackal' are extremely similar in appearance. You also can't get away from the fact that if you want to label Wepwawet as 'actually' a wolf, you must do the same for Anubis, except in those instances were calling him a dog is more appropriate. There is no jackal versus wolf. There is jackal/wolf versus dog. You haven't yet presented anything which indicates otherwise.

[Setnakht]

*** MOD HAT ON ***

Sethnakht, TC rules clearly states that moderation is to be left to the mods - and that includes telling others how they can or cannot behave in a thread. If you feel rules are being broken and moderation is needed, do please warn staff through the report to moderator link - while we make an effort to catch as much as we can directly, we are human and have been known to overlook things. You've been around long enough to know better than to step in yourself. This counts as a formal warning. If you get three warnings, a one week gag will follow. --Chabas TC Staff

Thank you, Chabas. I will do exactly that, when I feel that someone is being rude and inappropriate.

[SatSekhem]

I know I'm late to the party, but I can actually comment on this! Useless knowledge FTW!

The Aten, AFAIK, isn't a monotheistic god. From what I have read, Aten was around from at least the MK.

It does seem to stem as far back as the MK period. However, the initial meaning for the term was an all-encompassing variant. It could be utilized to mean any form of flattened disc. It wasn't until later in the period when it began to be used solely to manifest as a god aspect of the solar disk. This first appears in the Story of Sinuhe as dated back to the 12th century (Papyrus Berlin 10499).

Kemp himself has said that Akhenaten wasn't monotheistic. The people living during his reign seemed to worship the old gods instead of the Aten, for the most part. I guess there have been houses that were found is Amarna that had shrines to Akhenaten inside, but that outside of Amarna, it was rare. Kemp has noted that there were some reliefs made with other gods during that time- like he was nervous to entirely eradicate all of the gods. Or something of that nature. Needless to say, I doubt that all of Egypt changed their worship patterns when he took over. They just became more subdued.

It is, of course, incredibly difficult to figure out if Akhenaten was a monotheist or not. It would appear from the spotty evidence on record that he was a monotheist, however, one can never be sure. As it is, when it comes to the belief in a particular form of faith, the only way to concretely answer in someone else's name is by getting their viewpoint on said faith. Unfortunately, this is impossible. My personal thoughts are that he was a monotheist, but for political reasons as opposed to religious.

Most of the houses found in the Amarna setting had familial altars set up to worship the royal family. However, within the same ruins, one could find leftovers from shrines to other gods. This was more prominent in the lower caste housing, which was also further from the main aspect of town. Pieces of shrines for Tawaret and Hwt-Hrw seemed to have been the most prominent. At the workman's village outside of the Royal Wadi, there were shrines found to Meretseger, just like in the Royal Necropolis. It would appear that the upper classes weren't as "willing" to break the Pharaoh's new rules. However, the reality is probably more likely that they were just better about hiding their shrines. The reason few were found extant at Amarna was because, upon abandoning Akhenaten's city, they took the remnants of their familial and home shrines with them.

I'm not sure, as I haven't read Kemp's book, as to what other representations of other deities he's talking about. AFAIK, the start of the reign of the Aten began with his being brought forth little bit by little bit. I believe this is because Akhenaten was a damn political genius and seemed to know that just smashing through a thousands' of years established religion would have been near-on impossible. To be honest, I think that he initially needed this to happen in a slow-but-sure manner but for whatever reason was forced to speed up his time table. (Perhaps he really did go insane? Or, something major happened that caused him to be able to suddenly spring the Aten and his faith in this minor aspect on an unsuspecting populace.)

Another thing about other deities still being created during Akhenaten's reign... I think Kemp may also be referring to the fact that the very name of the Aten was rendered in two different aspects. The first aspect was, "Re-Horakhti who rejoices in the Horizon, in his name Shu which is the Aten." I believe this variation was popular for the first eight to twelve years of Akhenaten's reign. (My brain isn't as good about latching onto random factoids anymore, I'm afraid.) The secondary form managed to rid Akhenaten of any mention of other gods: "Re, ruler of the two horizons who rejoices in the Horizon, in his name of light which is the Aten."

You might be wondering about the Re mention in the second, later form of the Aten's name. In effect, Akhenaten was still firmly established within a solar religion, specifically to Re. Aspect of Re's cult were brought with him to Amarna, specifically the Apis bull.

The going theory on that is because Re's preeminence used to be all-encompassing. However, he had been eclipsed by Amun in Thebes, in effect, because of the expulsion of the Hyksos. (Kamose and Ahmose had to thank some god for their help, and since they were from Thebes, it stood to reason that they would choose Amun.) In a kind of, 'booby prize' the Re cult was granted quasi-important status by the merger with the god, Amun. The Amun-Re cult of Thebes was pretty damn powerful and of course, one of the main theories behind the Aten obsession was an effort to remove the power base from Amun-Re.

Akhenaten was raised at Heliopolis, or else it is thusly theorized. In all honesty, no one knows where this Amenhotep IV comes from prior to the death of his brother. It is based on the assumption that Akhenaten was raised at Heliopolis in the cult of Re that the obsession with the Aten sprung about.

Honestly? I think it was a generations-long plan to get rid of the power base of the Amun priests that backfired and failed utterly.

[Bezenwepwy]

I know I'm late to the party...

At least you're not like me, committing gross acts of thread necromancy.

This thread inspired me to do further research into the idea of wolves in Egypt and I've uncovered some interesting things over the past few months. And it has made it necessary to give the topic of wolves in ancient egypt it's own page on my website. (Bear in mind I'm still doing the occasional tweak to the text itself, but the information itself isn't likely to change between updates.)

http://www.per-sabu.org/wolves--wnsw.html

[WhiteWolf]

From time to time there has been discussion as to whether the Netjer Wepwawet was a wolf-headed or a jackal-headed deity. I have found the
following information inThe Salakhana Trove: Votive Stelae and Other Objects from Asyut. by Terence DuQuesne (London: 2009).
In the necropolis of Asyut there are several very large tombs dating to the 18th and 19th dynasties. A totoal of 556 stelae, 46 figurines, and three other objects were found. The majority of stelae honored Wepwawet as Lord of Asyut (what the Greeks named 'Lycopolis' or Wolf Town.
The Egyptologist Lacau "referred to the sepulchre as 'la grande tombe d'Assiout qui contient les momies de loups.'" The translation is "the grand tomb of Asyut which contains mummies of wolves." (page 19)
The problem, however, is complex because mummies of jackals and "other canids" (i.e., wolves) occur in the necropolis as well. This necropolis was specifically under the protection of Anpu (Anubis) so the presence of jackal mummies makes sense there. Therefore, we may say that Wepwawet bore the head of a wolf--but just tentatively. This mitigates against the notion that Wepwawet is just an aspect of Anubis, but is a separate netjer. The Greeks may have been quite right in naming Assyut
"Wolf Town." The main and largest temple in Assyut was that of Wepwawet.
A smaller temple there was that of Anubis.

The original wepwawet, the most ancient of the gods, was a white or grey wolf and known as the "opener of the way" (a psychopomp) of Lycopolis. It was so ancient that nothing survived of what Wepwawet looked like then. As each locality had their own deity, the religion was nationalized and the deities were incorporated into a larger cosmogony (like Horus the elder etc) into Enneads, Ogdoads, Triads etc.

The Greek should not be underestimated as they absorbed everything Egyptian and gave a Greek twist. The Greek equivalent of the Deity (Thoth & Hermes for example) and give a lot of insight into the original version of a Egyptian Deity.

The Psychopomp ("Opener of the way") eventually became Anubis, he would lead the dead to the scales in the Hall of Justice. Anubis became the merging of Anpu and Wepwawet (bis meaning two in Greek). Lucius Apuleius Platonicus mentioned the two faces of Anubis: "the one being black as night and the other golden as the day.”

Wepwawet was always represented standing, whereas Anpu was always recumbent. In the Hunefer Papyrus, a small standing Wepwawet (albeit black by this point in time) leads the corpse on the funerary boat and Anpu trails the boat in the recumbent position.

They eventually became a twin pair of recumbent jackals (both black) often facing each other or parallel to each other.

I have searched for a Lycopolis representation of Wepwawet but never was able to find one.

[Bezenwepwy]

The original wepwawet, the most ancient of the gods, was a white or grey wolf and known as the "opener of the way" (a psychopomp) of Lycopolis.

Wepwawet is an incrediably ancient god, one of the first to be depicted, and indeed has epithets which attest to him being considered rather primeval. But there are no declarations or depictions of him as a white or grey canid. As I've stated many times, a *colourless* depiction does not a white or grey colouration constitute. And I've already addressed the whole wolf thing in detail.

I'm not sure his earliest origins can necessarily be pinpointed exactly to Asyut, because there's also his close involvement with Nekhen and very early presence at Abydos as well.

Also while "Opener of the Way" can indeed refer to a psychopompic role, it is by no means limited to that. More often than not he opens the ways in the living world. Wepwawet isn't specifically a funerary deity. He's much more a representation of kingship and being firstborn son, with themes of ascension, etc.

It was so ancient that nothing survived of what Wepwawet looked like then.

What do you mean? There are pre-dynastic representations of him such as his inclusion as part of the "Followers of Horus" standards on the Narmer Palette. We know exactly what he looked like and he remained remarkably unchanged throughout the whole AE history.

The Psychopomp ("Opener of the way") eventually became Anubis, he would lead the dead to the scales in the Hall of Justice. Anubis became the merging of Anpu and Wepwawet (bis meaning two in Greek).

I think it is far more likely that when Anubis got ousted from his position as Khentyamentiu by Osiris, he began sharing in the role already established by Wepwawet. The two of them remained as a psychopompic team right through. There is no particular evidence that Wepwawet ever "became" Anubis however because Wepwawet never disappeared. The two of them are remarkably separate and distinct, even if they do come into close constellation with each other and can be seen as divine twins.

I'm also rather doubtful of your interpretation of Anubis's name. Although technically spelled Anpu, the name is actually Anup. The Greeks had a well established habit of adding an 's' to the end of their variations. So Anup became AnubiS, Heru became HoruS, Wesir became OsiriS, and 'Wepwa' (last w and t probably silent by that time) became OphoiS.

Lucius Apuleius Platonicus mentioned the two faces of Anubis: "the one being black as night and the other golden as the day."

That's because Anubis contains within himself a very real duality and always has. No conflating with Wepwawet necessary to achieve that.

Wepwawet was always represented standing, whereas Anpu was always recumbent. <...>

They eventually became a twin pair of recumbent jackals (both black) often facing each other or parallel to each other.

Well. Yes and no. For the most part you can say that. Wepwawet finds it much easier to assume the couchant positon than Anubis does the standing one. But it happens. There's a NK clay sealing from Thebes which shows Anubis as a standing jackal over the enemies of Egypt, for example. Given the context and the 'genre' of sealings it is very difficult to try to say it's Wepwawet.

You also need to look for other details such as whether or not the jackal is couchant on a shrine or on a standard, whether or not he is accompanied by the shedshed and uraeus. And context. And inscriptions.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'they eventually become' as the pairs of jackals begins on Middle Kingdom stelae from Abydos. Pretty early if you ask me. Interesting only a very tiny fraction of the stelae specifically name one jackal as Anubis and the other as Wepwawet. Two, in fact. Whereas 22 of them label both as Anubis, 37 as both Wepwawet, and 69 where there's no labeling at all and is probably purposefully ambiguous. (Numbers may be off by one or two, we're still finalizing the details for JD2.)

I have searched for a Lycopolis representation of Wepwawet but never was able to find one.

Try the Salakhana Trove. Try the various tombs around Asyut. Try the Greek coinage from that nome.