The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum

So I wanted to know if someone has any good resources to point at - preferably online, but books are  good as well.

Altough I must say, this idea that they possess anyone at any time they fancy kinda scares me off making offerings of any kind at the moment.

Apparently I am completely unable to quit being attracted -or attracting - liminal deities.

Upon reading on a book on compared world mythology entries on Baron Samedi and Mama Brigitte, I grew very intrigued on both of them, but i was sorry to see that the info I was able to dig up online was quite scarce.

So I wanted to know if someone has any good resources to point at - preferably online, but books are  good as well.

UPG, experiences, impressions and anything else you can think of in relation to Them are also extremely welcome.

What I am most interested in knowing is how these spirits react to be approached by non-vouduisants. From what I've read so far, while they are not especially 'picky' about the spiritual tradition/practices of people who open a contact with Them, They can ask for the BIG sort of stuff in exchange for their help when petitioned (like the devotee might be asked to dress black for whole their life as easily as he might be asked for a shot of rum).

Also I've read that an altar  for Them should not be set in your bedroom, otherwise you can open yourself to Them inviting Themselves over in your dreams/sexlife.

Also, their part of the altar should be covered with a veil so they don't bother other deities with their loudness if the altar houses other gods...

I would like to know how much of this info is accurate - it scares me a bit to be honest. And it makes Them to come across as quite intimidating deities that don't necessarily appreciate being approached with no reason.

So on a side, I am charmed enough by this carnal vitality they seem to have to be tempted to try a friendly offering or two. On another, I am way too intimidated to do a move. I am also interested in voudoo in general and I think it might have an interesting influence on my practice, so maybe trying an approach might be useful.

Did somebody say my name? O.O

I suppose I better pitch in my two bits, such as they are My relationship is more with Baron than Maman, though I suppose that could change. I'm also one of the non-voudisant people. I read the websites, I browse the books (though I have yet to get my hands on the Haitian Vodou Handbook). Mostly I go by what he nudges for.

According to the Hatians, he and Maman are basically the parents of the Ghede (thus the moniker Papa Ghede), dead spirits that have come back from the year of watery nothing after their death. Baron chooses those worthy (not all dead come back, and not all Ghede you may attract are your blood relations). The Roots Without End website mentioned earlier is a good one for explaining this sort of thing. Baron himself is divided into 3 barons that I know of- Samedi (think classical black magic voodoo zombi magician), La Croix (refined{ish} gentleman, more likely to deal with Ghede since they share his "last name", so to speak), and Criminel (criminal- will do anything for a price). I mostly deal with him as a whole, and just go with Baron as a title.

Be warned- you will suddenly develop an interest in stuff he likes if you work with him. He can be kind, but if you deliberately go against something he wants done or told you not to do, he will make sure you know how he feels about it. If he wants something and you can't afford it, talk with him. He bargains and he helps, but if you value your peace of mind, DO NOT forget what you have promised. I've noticed that he doesn't seem to like to share altar space, mostly because he doesn't like to share HIS STUFF.

He is crude, but not in an insulting way. He doesn't call random people motherfuckers, for example (unless they anger him badly. Like, major shitstorm badly.) He's more like the grandfather that tells really bad and filthy jokes at the family reunion. He isn't politically correct. AT ALL. One of the songs sung for him in Haiti is about toothless vagina eating peeled penis (except more colorful >.>). If you have the kind of sense of humor that can handle and enjoy such things, you get along pretty well with him. For example, he really really enjoyed my "ohcrapI'msorryIforgot" make-up offering when it came with a single foot-and-a-half long black taper. Rubbed with oil. Sittin' on the altar lookin' ever so innocent and harmless and definitely not phallic AT ALL. I found it spectacularly difficult to conduct ritual when I glanced over at a big, long, black candle and busted out into giggles every damn time.

He tends to be "loud". If he wants something, you will know. You will end up going to the store that is a half hour out of the way, circling the display case like a hungry shark around a tuna can, waving your mouse ninety times over the purchase button- he doesn't let go very easily. I've noticed most people who "talk" with the well-known lwa and with Ghede mention that they are "loud". Not in a "OMFG THE SKULL IT SPEAKS AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!" way or "Holy crap hearing voices" way (though some people get that. Seems to depend more on the person, though, than the contacting entity.) More like "Why is this catching my attention so often?" way. And the ever popular "I want that and that and tha- waitaminnit, I never liked that before O.o" way.

As for the possible sexual interaction... well, it is possible. I haven't heard of Baron swinging for the other team (even when possessing a gay man, he very vocally pronounces his love for the ladies) so male devotees could possibly be safe. I've never heard of Maman showing interest in that kind of relationship, but then again I'm hardly all-knowing. Ms. Graveyarddirt (owner of the blog Grave Yard Dirt mentioned upthread) does have a sometimes-sexual relationship with Baron. Her husband hasn't dropped dead yet, so I'm assuming they worked out some sort of deal. (Be warned though, you either tend to love or hate her style of witchery.) Suffice it to say, if you're a female he will flirt. Its up to you to take it any further.

Thank you for bringing over your perspective - you painted a very vivid picture!

There are any other links you would recommend for deeping my understanding of vodoo?

I must say since i started researching Maman Brigitte and The Baron, I have been struck with the image of this statuines that I saw once of a skeleton bride and groom ... i ended hounding shops for them until i realized that I had seen them in those shops about years ago- five, six years ago even- and how i had thought of them as being so tacky, I could not image buying them.

So I still got no idea of why I want them as I still am too intimidated by The Baron and Maman B, to seriously consider invinting them over...

Still this morning I really freaked myself out ... i was fixing my hair in front of the mirror thinking of random altar-related stuff when i glanced at myself in the mirror and noticed that i was muttering 'baron samedi' in a growly voice.

I am not sure if this might be what you mean about Ghede being loud, or it's just me being nuts. :whis:

Just one question more in addition to the previous ones- how are food offering adressed in the voodoo tradition?

the devotee consumes them once the deity is done with it, or are they left outside, or something else?

I find it curious i have not found no specification on this account on the links i visited so far.

Um.... Not really. (Not that wants to come to the front of my mind ATM XD ). Swamp Witchery and her husband Shadow have a more formal-ish relationship with Papa and Maman. They live in New Orleans in the Old French Quarter so they are a bit closer to "official" worship.

I do tend to leave the formal vodou alone. I figure everyone has dead people. If I was drawn to one of the lwa (with the possible exception of Legba, because he's... well... Legba) I'd be lot more worried about doing it "right". Baron is very good at telling me when I'm doing it wrong, so I go by him. If I'm asked for my opinion, I make sure to mention that I'm not traditional in the least.



Sounds about right XD



Dead people are scary. They may make jokes and drink like a fish, but they're still dead. And death freaks people out. (Something I've found that is helped by the Ghede.) Its also fascinating.



Again, sounds about right :p Wait til you start putting together a playlist and start singing "Living Dead Girl" for him. Or various Lords of Acid songs because they are blatantly sexual XD






In classic vodou, I do believe things are eaten. I know sacrificed animals are (unless they are used to cleanse and are thus unclean and unfit for eating). I believe that most food offerings are left for a period and then revert, possibly because wasting food in Haiti is damn near criminal. The blood, cigars, alcohol, oil... all that doesn't revert because its theirs. Also, those items are either luxury goods (thus a good offering) or something that is both symbolic and needs to be gotten rid of to make food edible (i.e., blood).

Some non-traditionals (I'm thinking of Ms. Graveyarddirt specifically) sets aside portions and then leaves them outside or in specific areas for wildlife. Me? I do both, depending on what I "hear". Sometimes I invite him to use my tastebuds (especially with Burger King burgers- after I agreed to it, the burger tasted strangely flat to me. The fries were kick-ass though. He got the burger, I got the fries : ). If you do promise him something entirely, with no reversion, and then eat it.... beware, is all I can say. I made that mistake once (not with Baron). I thought that a sip of sanctified water would be better drunk than poured down the sink. Worst case of stomach cramps and gastro-intestinal fireworks I'd had for a while, from tap water I drink everyday in a freshly-washed pitcher and cup. :sick: