"you're wrong!"

[Lokabrenna]

As I've mentioned several times now, I've been having an interesting time talking to Catholics about Paganism(s) and trying to clear up some misconceptions. The most recent one I received (yesterday) was: "But don't Pagans worship goat heads?" :D

Anyways, maybe it's just me, but I've noticed that I've been saying things like: "Now, of course not every Pagan believes this (because there are so many different Pagan religions)," or "Their position on issue X (say homosexuality or abortion) varies from individual to individual (just like it does with non-Pagans)." I've also caught myself (and others have pointed it out) saying: "Now, this might not be true for me, but it is true for some people."

Now, I think those statements are perfectly reasonable, but does it seem as if there is a reluctance among Pagans to say "X is wrong"? I personally think that what it is is a reflection of the decentralized nature of Pagan religions. It is, quite frankly, almost impossible to come up with something that every Pagan tradition is going to agree on. My monotheist friends then use this reluctance to say: "Well, since Pagans can't agree on anything, how do they know what is true?" and I think that probably has something to do with the fact that I'm trying to discuss orthopraxic traditions with people who follow an orthodoxic tradition.



Does anyone have anything to add? Even if it's just: "Thanks for (mis)representing us, LB!" I try, really, we're just so diverse! It's like trying to talk about Europeans as a group!

[Darkhawk]

My monotheist friends then use this reluctance to say: "Well, since Pagans can't agree on anything, how do they know what is true?"

Capital-P pagan problem. As long as they're under the illusion that paganism is a proper noun, they'll expect a lot more cohesion out of it.

Ask 'em how they know their thing is true.

Then ask 'em how a Buddhist knows their thing is true.

Then ask 'em how a member of a different monotheistic religion knows their thing is true.

Keep going until they grow a clue.

Or don't.

I can't be arsed dealing with people who are hung up on whether their thing is "true".

[Jubes]

Now, I think those statements are perfectly reasonable, but does it seem as if there is a reluctance among Pagans to say "X is wrong"?

They seem pretty reasonable to me as well as honest. The fact that you are only speaking for yourself and your beliefs is what makes it reasonable to say that while it might be true for others it is not true for you. Sometimes people forget what it's like to have individual beliefs and can not seem to wrap their heads around the fact that you do not have to conform to the masses just to have something to believe in, that sometimes it is OK to say "well I don't' believe in that but I do in this". So when they come across someone who can say "Hey I think the masses have it wrong and I believe in this and I don't really care if anyone else does it's what I believe in" they conformists lose it and think there is something wrong with the one who can think for themselves.

[RandallS]

My monotheist friends then use this reluctance to say: "Well, since Pagans can't agree on anything, how do they know what is true?" and I think that probably has something to do with the fact that I'm trying to discuss orthopraxic traditions with people who follow an orthodoxic tradition.

My reply would be something along the lines of "Paganism is not a religion, it is an umbrella term for a large number of often very different religions each one of which has their own set of beliefs and practices. Many of these religions are as different from one another as Catholicism is from Buddhism. Pagans don't agree because "Paganism" isn't a single religion, but many different religions. Expecting all Pagan religions to agree would be like expecting the Pope and the Dali Lama to agree on theology."